25-02-2002 02:48									#1
	Busted production/commerce bonuses? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The civ traits worked fine in the original game, however, with the version 6 and 7 patches things seem to be kinna screwed.

**Americans are generating additional commerce in cities and metros rather than production.

**Babylonians generate BOTH extra commerce and production in cities and metros (!).

**French are generating additional commerce only.


Anyone else seeing this?

	25-02-2002 04:48									#2
	Remove this text

Hopefully someone with more experience can answer your question fully.

I pay little attention to city squares, as what goes on with them are not within my control anways. I have 1 game in 1.17 that I can help you with. French, Monarchy, ind/com:

Paris 12 (grass/river) 2/1/3
Orleans 12 (grass/cattle) 2/2/2
Dijon 8 (grass*) 2/2/2
Bayon 8 (grass) 2/1/2
Tours 10 (hill) 2/2/2
Toulouse 11 (plains/river) 2/2/3

Looks like the following with ind/com:

Shield +1 seems to only apply when city square is on shielded grassland, cattle, hill, or plains. It appears that the industrious shield bonus in 1.17 only applies to city squares that naturally produce a shield. It would explain Dijon producing 2 shields because it's built on a shielded grassland whereas Bayon is not.

Commerce +1 applies to all cities 7+ regardless of terrain.

Qualifier: I am using an 'older' 1.17 patch. I am too lazy to get the new one.

HEY! That makes no sense! I'm going back and forth between here and my saved game, and Orleans only gets 2 food, and it's on a grassland cattle square! I thought food bonuses applied regardless of whether or not you built on the square?! Oh well.

	25-02-2002 06:48									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Oh for chrissakes....

Thanks Muppet. That opened the ugly can of worms.


I went back and Built a size 7 city next to a lake for all civs, and guess what?


**ALL** civs get industry and commerce bonuses now.


And yes, oddly, the city must be build on a shild-producing square to get the production bonus.


What a friggin mess.

	25-02-2002 08:45									#4
	Got spare money?

I tried founding a few cities in various locations in a new 1.17f game, and it appears that building a city on top of a resource no longer adds the resource's food or shield bonus to the city square production (but any gold from the resource is added).

For example, building a city on a wheat or cattle tile gets you no bonus, building on a wine tile gets you the +1 gold but not the +1 food. I'm pretty sure that before 1.17f, you got all the resource bonuses added to the city square production.

	25-02-2002 11:04									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Update to shield bonus in City Square:

Avignon (French) Monarchy, Size 7, Plains, Beaver.
Stats: 2/3/3

Looks like shield and commerce bonuses apply in the case of beaver on plains (cleared forest).

Nero Would: do you think it may be the despotism penalty that removed some of the resource bonuses? In the case of wine's +1 food, it never shows up under depotism anyways, but pre-1.17patch you would see the benefit after you changed governments.

Or, could it be just food bonuses are simply not permitted in the new patch?

Edit: Wheat and Cattle don't work when you plant a city on them. What gives, that food bonuses are not permitted, but commerce and shield bonuses are? Can anyone with the 'correct' 1.17 patch verify if this is true with that version as well?

Last edited by muppet on 25-02-2002 at 14:54

	25-02-2002 11:23									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Technoron **ALL** civs get industry and commerce bonuses now. What a friggin mess.

They were doing that since at least the 1.16 patch. Maybe since the release, but i don't think so.

	25-02-2002 15:02									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Nero Would For example, building a city on a wheat or cattle tile gets you no bonus, building on a wine tile gets you the +1 gold but not the +1 food. I'm pretty sure that before 1.17f, you got all the resource bonuses added to the city square production.

Not exactly true.

You DID NOT get the shield bonus from cattle, it appeared the city default 1 shield simply overrides whatever the terrain shield count was.

You DID get the food bonus though from cattle, wheat, and 'I think' just about any food/terrain combination bonus was permitted the city square... With wines, it just didn't kick in until you got past depotism because of the 'over 2 penalty'.

I am dissappointed. Why is a non-problem getting 'fixed'? Sometimes, there is no better square to found a city... why be punished for it?

	25-02-2002 17:30									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by muppet I am dissappointed. Why is a non-problem getting 'fixed'? Sometimes, there is no better square to found a city... why be punished for it?

With cities like that you could easily despot-poprush. Extra food=extra production.