25-02-2002 22:48									#1
	No more stupid trade offers PLEASE! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I KNOW I'm not the only one who's tired of getting bugged by inccessant and stupid offers from the A.I.


.....We offer : territory map

.....We want : territory map + shiny new high end tech



GODS. Has anyone in the history of Civilization bought into this? Where the heck is the "hold my calls" preference button so I don't have to keep telling other civs to "GO BLOW A GOAT!"


And why don't they just offer equal value so I don't have to drive myself over the edge adjusting offers up and down until I arrive at something that's finally "acceptable"? ...We're "getting close to a deal here"???? REALLY??? Well, Mr. Helpfull_Trade_Advisor, why don't you save me some frickin' time and clicks and just tell me what the score is"????... The A.I. will never accept anything BELOW the minimum value and I'll pleasure said goat before I ever give the A.I. anything ABOVE the minimum value so why not JUST TELL ME THE MINIMUM VALUE???????

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!

I think I gotta lay off the Mountain Dew for a while.

	25-02-2002 22:57									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Just make either a counter proposal, or just say "Not a Chance". Easy as that.

	25-02-2002 23:08									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Technoron,

This is no kind of criticism. This is just a whine, not asking for any advice. We welcome, though, some nice constructive criticism, but this doesn't look at all .

	25-02-2002 23:11									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

i dont know if this already happens but they should (and do, i think) come to know you as a tough negotiator when you go to the last gold coin while also thinking of you as a fool when you give them stuff they werent expecting

Also i think they should overestimate and underestimate the value of things when they are trading, just as a human player might. Again I dont know if they do this already, but the AI should place great value on a military tech if they are at war and you can sell it to them. They would have to decide whether the tech is worth the value of old units that they could build with the money they are spending on it, and what those units could accomplish. Complexity is great

They should also not know exactly how valuable your world map is

The overriding aim in updating this type of game for me would be reducing the number of clicks a player has to make, while increasing hte number of conscious decisions. IMHO the interface is the best so far, but not perfect by a long way.

	25-02-2002 23:14									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've also paid 3500 gold and 2 luxuries for one tech... when the AI knew I will do that, and I did.

Some other times, I won't give them anything.

	25-02-2002 23:29									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Solver Technoron, This is no kind of criticism. This is just a whine, not asking for any advice. We welcome, though, some nice constructive criticism, but this doesn't look at all .

Yeah, but it was funny and amusing!

	25-02-2002 23:59									#7
	Tired of ads?

I'm currently trying to hack the diplomacy.txt file to make saying no a little bit more fun...

	26-02-2002 00:03									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Having the diplomatic advisor calculate the minimum the others will accept is not a simple matter. You don't buy things with gold only, but with a variety of resources, treaties, maps, techs etc. There are plenty of combinations to have the AI accept a deal, and thus, plenty of different "minimum payments" you can do.
Also, giving the others what they want instead of the very minimum is good for your relations : as a builder, I almost always agree to the terms of the AI when they're not ludicrous (riiiiight, Hiawatha, I will sell you Industrialisation for 1 gold ).
As I'm a source of wealth to every other civ, they tend to like me, and refuse to declare war to me. And so I'm making more and more business, being away from the wars I indirectly finance.

	26-02-2002 01:11									#9
	just say no. Enter the AD-FREE zone

You don't even have to talk to them if you don't want to. When the foreign advisor asks if I want to see Mr. Pesky Backwater Chump, I just say no.

	26-02-2002 03:20									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Having the diplomatic advisor calculate the minimum the others will accept is not a simple matter. You don't buy things with gold only, but with a variety of resources, treaties, maps, techs etc. There are plenty of combinations to have the AI accept a deal, and thus, plenty of different "minimum payments" you can do.

Actually, It'd be a snap. Ever played Fallout? the barter systems in Civ3 and Fallout are identical, except that Civ3 doesn't display the barter value of items.

In Fallout you know flat out what yer gear is worth and so can conduct trades quickly and hassle free. Whereas in Civ3, only the AI knows what yer gear is worth and so the player can either spend lots of time clicking around for the best deal or just sit back and smile sublimely while he/she gets raped.

	26-02-2002 03:34									#11
	Re: just say no. Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ironikinit You don't even have to talk to them if you don't want to. When the foreign advisor asks if I want to see Mr. Pesky Backwater Chump, I just say no.

Unfortunately....

1. This is not always an option. There are some instances when you are automatically dragged to the diplomacy screen and presented with a ridiculous trade offer (with no threat of war).


2. I get tired of seeing all those "requests for audience" popups because I KNOW that its gonna be the same stupid offer i've already said no to a dozen times in the past. Is there any difference between saying "no you can not have an audience" and "no i will not accept that trade". I don't think so. Both events require my time and attention. Both events are obnoxiously overdone. Both events are unwelcome.


Yeah. I could really go for an "AI initiated trades" toggle on the preferences screen. Especially since I NEVER engage in trading during the AI's turn. It's a bad idea - puts them in control.

	26-02-2002 11:41									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Tech,

Good idea, have you suggested it for the next patch?