26-02-2002 23:26									#1
	What Civ specification is most important for you? Put an end to popups!

I'm asking cuz I never found a Civ spec. more important than Scientific. Cuz with Scientific civs you can sell techs fast to get $$/turn and build wonders first. The rest I dont really care about. What about you all?

Spec.

	26-02-2002 23:32									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Do you always post this many polls? I voted for commercial because the additional decrease in corruption helps to bring my civs to the height of efficiency. Also, marketplaces and banks are very important to building a strong economy, but they are also quite expensive without the commercial ability. Of course, I could give an argument for why any of the abilities was best, but commercial is the one I am currently using (Romans rock!)

	26-02-2002 23:39									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Zouave Do you always post this many polls?

No, It's just that I was playin yesterday and all these questions poped up in my head so I wrote them down for you all the give me some feed back.

Spec.

	26-02-2002 23:43									#4
	dead heat Increase Your PM Length

There's a case for them all. I voted for Industrious cause I like clearing Jungles.

Does that even make sense?

	26-02-2002 23:46									#5
	Re: dead heat Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chiefpaco There's a case for them all. I voted for Industrious cause I like clearing Jungles. Does that even make sense?

It does, becuase industrious civ take less time for terrain improvment.

	26-02-2002 23:52									#6
	right Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That's it, Spectator.

For example, if you get stuck with poor terrain, Industrious can save you. If you have good terrain, it won't help as much.

If you constantly get pulled in & out of war, Religious will save you. If not, it doesn't help as much.

So, I'd say those 2 are the "saving" traits while the other have more overall benefits for those with better luck (or skill, whatever you see fit).

	27-02-2002 00:19									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Religious. Cheap temples at the get-go, cheap cathedrals later, and 1 turn anarchy. It's a beautiful thing. Works great with just about any other trait (personally, I like scientific or industrious).

-Arrian

	27-02-2002 00:35									#8
	Re: right Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by chiefpaco If you constantly get pulled in & out of war, Religious will save you. If not, it doesn't help as much.

Religious is my second best after Scientific cuz you get temples and cathedrals for half price and you're automaticly a culture whore and I like that.

Spec.

	27-02-2002 01:19									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

wow, I'm the only person that took militaristic. Interesting. I play the Japanese btw. War is just the best way to utterly dominate this game. I just can't resist. But you could say I put equal weight in religious because I either play them or the aztecs.

	27-02-2002 03:19									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I've always found comparing the civ traits interesting. Its one of the most important decisions you make in any game.

At first I was a die hard Industrious + Commercial.

Now however, I think Industrious is over rated maybe. The bonus shield is often totally lost. The big draw is the double speed workers ... the bonus is getting tile improvements completed faster. I would find this much more useful if it weren't for the high corruption. The majority of my land may as well remain undeveloped, since it will just be corrupted down to 1 anyway. I think I'm willing to have the useful terrain improvements completed later if I can get another civ trait in exchange.

I also don't like Commercial as much as I used to. The bonus coin is never lost, that is good. It does add up nicely after a while. The big draw is the reduced corruption. No one seems to know for sure, but it doesn't seem like the reduction is very big, maybe 5%. Again not bad, and again it will add nicely over time. However both of those bonuses deliver much of their benefit late in the game, by which time you've already won.

I always thought Expansionist was too weak, even long before Civ3 came out. Sometimes it is super, but usually it is far less than the other traits.

Which leaves Militaristic, Religious, and Scientific. I think these are the three best traits.

Militaristic because it really helps you get a leader. You pretty much need at least 2 leaders, one for first army and one for FP. I have had my entire empire "on hold" waiting for the FP to be built so many times, I really want to have a good chance of getting a leader. Also since (to me at least) the only thing to do late game is fight, it is a nice bonus.

Religious is nice for the cheap temples. The no-anarchy is nice, but kind of a bonus you don't want. If you switch governments often, you are basically maximizing lost turns of production. Yes it is only one turn (due to Religious) but it is still something you don't want many of. Therefore I like the temple bonus more, and still try to minimize my government changes.

Scientific is nice for the cheap libraries, and also the cheap universities, since they have so much culture. Bonus tech is ok, but only makes a difference in really close tech races. However since it is often the guy who is just one tech ahead that gets to sell them, that one tech can be important.

So my current civ is Germans, Militaristic + Scientific. Picking the most important trait, I would say Militaristic (my alternate civ is Japan). Must ... have ... 2 ... leaders! And again, late game there isn't much to do but fight, so you might as well have guys who are good at it.

Sorry for the long post, but I always liked comparing civ traits. Thanks for reading if you made it through!

	27-02-2002 03:42									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

good post. And I agree those do seem to be the 3 best traits. Although interestingly I have never played scientific (or have I? Are babylonians scientific?). In either case I never finished that game. But it is real nice having cheap libraries and universities. Because I build them everywhere anyways. But I like to get my temples up quick to keep unhappiness problems at bay. So I rate religious slightly higher than scientific.

In order: Militaristic, religious, scientific, comercial ,industrious, expansionist.

	27-02-2002 03:43									#12
	Suffering from ads?

All of the traits have a use, depending on playstyle. As I enjoy playing on a lot of diverse settings, I voted for Expansionist because it can be the most powerful trait. Other than Commercial, all of the other traits also have settings/playstyles where they offer the most advantages. None of the other attributes in any settings can compete with Expansionist's advantages on larger landmass games though.

	27-02-2002 03:46									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My vote is religious first, with scientific and industrious sharing the second place.

At this point of the poll, religious is at 1st place with 10, industrious second with 8 and scientific and militaristic share 3rd place with 3. Seems best civ are the Egypts.

	27-02-2002 04:46									#14
	Great thoughts! Full PM-box? Change here!

I voted religious, but it was a tough decision. I was surprised to see it so high though, for some reason. If anything, I'm begining to learn an appreciation for each of the ones I've played.

Particularly now in my current game as the Germans. Its been a worn torn world for many years now, and I've stubbornly refused to go communist, or royalist, for too long. The religious trait would have been nice for switching governments.

I'm looking forward to test-driving my first panzer!

	27-02-2002 04:58									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dissident wow, I'm the only person that took militaristic. Interesting. I play the Japanese btw. War is just the best way to utterly dominate this game. I just can't resist. But you could say I put equal weight in religious because I either play them or the aztecs.

My thoughts exactly, Dissident. I love the Japanese...great at war, and if war weariness gets too high, switch to Communism! It only takes one turn! Then wipe the buggers off of the face of the earth without having too much disorder. Don't get me started on the Samuari...they are supreme!

	27-02-2002 05:08									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Aeson - You are right, Expansionistic can be vewry powerful. During a test game with it, I once got TEN techs, plus about 5 other hut goodies.

So I agree it can be huge. Ten techs right at the start of the game!

However on another test game I got one Warrior and one map reveal before running flat into another civ. In that game I would have been at a huge disadvantage against civs with two trait bonuses.

Expansionistic is just too much of a gamble for me. As a bonus, it is guaranteed to disappear; it is not guaranteed to give you something useful before it does. If I wanted consistancy, or I really wanted to win, I wouldn't take Expansionistic.

The great thing about Expansionistic is that its bonuses come right at the start of the game (unlike say Commercial, which makes you wait until end game to collect fully).

Dissident - You and I seem to be on the same page. I prefer Scientific over Religious, but otherwise I have the same list. Japanese are definitely my second favorite to Germans.

Looks like Egyptians must be the popular civ in the poll so far. The Egyptian AI does do pretty well in my games.

	27-02-2002 15:35									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This might make you guys laugh, but I voted expansionist.

WAIT, just hear me out: with only one (or two) explorers in the very begining of a game with LOADS of huts you ALWAYS get something good, no barabarians. This also means loads of science in the beginning. And for my it isn't ONE ability, it is combinations. I love sci, and religious. The only thing I really don't go for is military. I just don't see much of a diff.

	27-02-2002 15:49									#18
	Got spare money?

I just love Barbarians and I hate Expansionists.

Well, religious tribes rock. Halleluia! Say your prayers, Expansionists!

Last edited by Pius Popprasch on 27-02-2002 at 15:54