27-02-2002 01:55									#1
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Thinking about my future I've had some weird and freaky ideas.

How is Canada as a place to live?

Can you recommend some cool regions for living, unis/colleges for studying?

	27-02-2002 01:57									#2
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It's like the U.S. only better

	27-02-2002 01:58									#3
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Ontario is like America in just about every way, but with higher taxes.
The east coast is in the slums still, due to a collapsed fishing industry. Pretty miserable weather too.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan are wastes of time.
BC is beautiful, but the government is still trying to undo the damage that the socialists did. It's pretty screwed up right now.
Alberta is beautiful also, lowest taxes in the nation, and a consistent conservative government (30 years now). Healthiest economy, too.

University is considerably cheaper than the states, because of heavy subsidization.

Here's where I live in Alberta:

Attachment: calgary.jpg
This has been downloaded 147 time(s).

	27-02-2002 02:02									#4
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I would like to live in Canada in the summer and Australia in the winter (which would be summer again). Hmmm the lack of seasons may screw my body up .

But I can't imagine the job market is nearly as good as where I live. And I wouldn't be a very good patriot if I moved out of my home country .

	27-02-2002 02:09									#5
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If you like mountains and hippies, go to the west coast.

If you like vast fields of nothing, go to the prairies.

If you like vast forests of nothing, go to new brunswick.

If you like vast artic plains of nothing, go to the territories.

If you like drunken sailors, go to the east coast.

If you like the french, go to quebec.

If you want big cities and american crime, go to Ontario.

	27-02-2002 02:14									#6
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Well Asher, believe it or not, but that picture actually made me think about Canada as a place for the future. I've always felt a bit sorry about most US citizens' ... attitudes , since that country must be pretty cool. Now Canada is just enxt to it and is supposed to be pretty similar in many regards, just without all the people being dumb

How's the job market over there? Do you guys need highly intelligent good-looking European youngsters with excellent highschool graduation? But then, that is a question for unis

Well, do all cities in Canada (or Alberta) look like that one?

	27-02-2002 02:17									#7
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Doubt it. Vancouver is considered one of the most beautiful cities in the world, let alone Canada.

	27-02-2002 02:19									#8
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Yes, I've heard before that Vancouver must be really nice.

Any pictures there?

	27-02-2002 02:20									#9
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but it's colder than hell (that doesn't really make sense) there in the winter.

They need to install giant heaters there for me to live there in the winter.

	27-02-2002 02:24									#10
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Calgary really is a nice looking city.

Some people here don't seem to like the praries, but I think it's great Cost of living is really low, which would be a selling point for a potential student.

We also must need Europeans since I know quite a few people here that were born in Eastern Europe.

	27-02-2002 02:31									#11
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Guess this city.


Or this one.


Or finally, this one...


And no peeking at the urls.

	27-02-2002 02:31									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion How's the job market over there? Do you guys need highly intelligent good-looking European youngsters with excellent highschool graduation? But then, that is a question for unis

Alberta's job market isn't what it was two years ago. There were big shortages in most fields. But since then, so many people (especially from Saskatchewan) are moving here so fast, and the economy in North America is pretty harsh overall, so the unemployment rate is just over 4% now, IIRC. Still the best (or one of the best) in Canada, and certainly up there in North America.

The problem is the economy is still fairly dependent on oil. If there's any oil crises, the economy takes a beating pretty fast. It's not too bad these days, because it's really diverse now. The oil companies are working on this project in Alberta called the Athabasca Oilsands. Supposedly it's got more barrels of oil in there than Saudi Arabia. So they're spending billions upon billions trying to get at it, which is acting as a huge boon to the economy.

quote: Well, do all cities in Canada (or Alberta) look like that one?

Many in BC do. BC is really gorgeous. University of British Columbia has the best campus I've seen. Spectacular.
Alberta only has two real cities: Calgary and Edmonton. Edmonton's smaller than Calgary, but still looks pretty decent.

Ontario cities look just like big American cities.

quote: but it's colder than hell (that doesn't really make sense) there in the winter.

It's not that cold if you stay near the border. Right now it's -2C in Calgary. We also get things due to the mountains called "Chinooks" that bring us into +10C weather even if we were -20C the day before. It's really cool.

	27-02-2002 02:34									#13
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What do you want to study? Different areas have schools that are better for different things.

And before you fall over yourself rushing to Alberta - remember that it is the redneck capital of Canada. It's like Texas with snow. Now there are cool parts of Alberta - White Ave. in Edmonton, umm, ummm and there must be something neat in Calgary - there are also a lot of cowboy hats.

Most of my family lives there and I was born in Calgary so I know of what I speak.

If you want just pure scenic beauty - go to Vancouver. The job market is tight though - as Asher pointed out, the government in B.C. did its best to destroy the economy there over the last couple of decades and it is only now emerging from that craziness. UBC is a decent school though - as is SFU.

Toronto is OK, it's kinda like most Eastern seaboard American towns, only its Canadian. Suffers from some New York envy, but generally a decent place. UofT is a top-flight school and has a very urban campus.

Montreal is great. If you're a student and want a great blend of North America with a more European attitude, Montreal is the place. The job market is extremely tight though. The place has been governed by separatists for years and they have scared away a lot of money. Too much time is spent plotting referenda rather than running the place. McGill is the best university in Montreal, IMHO.

	27-02-2002 02:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda And before you fall over yourself rushing to Alberta - remember that it is the redneck capital of Canada. It's like Texas with snow. Now there are cool parts of Alberta - White Ave. in Edmonton, umm, ummm and there must be something neat in Calgary - there are also a lot of cowboy hats. Most of my family lives there and I was born in Calgary so I know of what I speak.

Ermm...sorry, but that's quite frankly bullshit.
Outside of Calgary it's full of "rednecks". Farmers, ranchers, etc. Calgary is white-collar (2nd highest rate of post-secondary education in the country after Halifax, IIRC).
I have no idea why everyone thinks Calgary is full of hicks. Is it because of the Stampede?

Edmonton is more full of "rednecks" than Calgary because, by it's nature, it's far more blue-collar. Calgary is a corporate city, very capitalist. That doesn't make us rednecks. Hell, I'm bisexual and I've not run into any people with problems with it. Redneck my ass.

	27-02-2002 02:54									#15
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You could always move to Israel!

Plenty of action, it's never boring.
And our women have big M-16s.

	27-02-2002 02:59									#16
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How is Canada as a place to live ??

Diverse. I love my country since there is something there for everyone. I have lived in Newfoundland, Halifax and now in Calgary and have been in every province at least once. Where you go depends on what you want

eastern four provinces

-- generally milder weather with more rain, a little worse economically. Cities are smaller and there are bunches of small towns. people are reputed as friendlier, crime is less and housing costs are rock-bottom in most places. There is wide variation in the region as lifestyle in Halifax is more metroplitan and fast paced than rural areas ( and even then is slower paced than most areas)

Quebec

a French flavor and a wonderful vibrant city in Montreal-- economy has been so-so but lots to do


Ontario

probably the closest similarities to the US cities just across the border-- more fast paced than elsewhere in Canada


Manitoba -Saskatchewan

The area I know least well-- Economies are ok, terrain is largely prairie flatlands, real cold in winter

Alberta (my new home)

Beautiful mountains in a place with a still growing economy. House prices are higher than most places but still less than Vancouver and Toronto-- very business-friendly attitude with low taxation.

BC

good climate-- it rains as much as the east coast but the temps are much warmer. Higher taxation , more pro-union . . . this side of the mountains is equally gorgeous. A lot of asian immigration into the area make Vancouver in particular fairly multicultural

North

largely empty apart from natives and some specific-industry towns- Some high paying work but costs are high as well. Good place to work for a while to build up some cash as there is little to do


These comments are largely about how the provinces relate to one another since for example, Alberta is not low-tax when compared with many US states while BC would not be high-tax when compared with some of the social welfare states in Europe.

Overall the country is just so darn big.

Oh and asher, nice shot-- do you live up on coach hill ??

	27-02-2002 03:00									#17
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I have been to canada 2 times. Once to Montreal and once to Ottowa. Both were nice cities. I was going to mention that McGill looked like a nice school. The girl I went to visit there sure looked nice!

One thing that struck me about Montreal that was different than where I live (Boston area, Massachusetts) was the contrast between city and country. You would drive for hours on these endless streets of plains and such and then BAM, out of nowhere there is Montreal. One could easily find a spot to take a picture of cows with the skyline of Montreal not too far off. Here, we have towns for miles and miles in between the country and the cities. In other words, there didnt seem to be a big sprawling suburbia that we have here.

-FMK.

	27-02-2002 03:08									#18
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Both Vancouver and Toronto are the best cities I've ever been to...I'd love to leave there (especially for Vancouvers fireworks festival on the beach :love. I didn't like Montreal though, seemed a bit dirty (as in grafitti etc., but I was also staying next to the red light district...)

	27-02-2002 03:29									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Ermm...sorry, but that's quite frankly bullshit. Outside of Calgary it's full of "rednecks"

Read before you react. I said Alberta is the redneck capital of Canada. I didn't say Calgary was. Now, if you want to dispute my actual statement, point out the province that has more rednecks per capita than Alberta and I will gladly concede the point. Until then, my uncles, aunts, cousins and their friends in Calgary, Shepherd, Sylvan Lake, Red Deer, Drumheller and Lethbridge who all cheerfully call themselves rednecks, can still work themselves into a lather over the "Lougheed Liberals", slavishly vote for Klein and are convinced that they are in the Albertan majority will remain my main impression of the Albertan vox populi.

And a redneck isn't necessarily an uneducated hick. I've got friends at some of Calgary's largest law firms who think of themselves as rednecks. Hell, five of my Dad's brothers were proud of their farmer tans and their right wing, small town, gun toting, social conservative values and every one of them had some sort of higher education (whether from SAIT or UofC).

You can argue if you like, but next time I'm at the Oilmen's Club I think I'll find more people that agree with me than you.

	27-02-2002 03:34									#20
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What is Canada like?
Ecthelion, you'll save in trip fares if you'll just come to Finland, another bilingual country where you can freeze your butt off.

	27-02-2002 03:34									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda Now, if you want to dispute my actual statement, point out the province that has more rednecks per capita than Alberta and I will gladly concede the point.

Depends how you define redneck.
Saskatchewan has many more rednecks per capital, except they're socialist.

quote: Until then, my uncles, aunts, cousins and their friends in Calgary, Shepherd, Sylvan Lake, Red Deer, Drumheller and Lethbridge who all cheerfully call themselves rednecks, can still work themselves into a lather over the "Lougheed Liberals", slavishly vote for Klein and are convinced that they are in the Albertan majority will remain my main impression of the Albertan vox populi.

Surely since your family has hicks in it the province is full of them.
Every city you mentioned there except for Calgary are essentially farming communities anyway.

quote: And a redneck isn't necessarily an uneducated hick. I've got friends at some of Calgary's largest law firms who think of themselves as rednecks. Hell, five of my Dad's brothers were proud of their farmer tans and their right wing, small town, gun toting, social conservative values and every one of them had some sort of higher education (whether from SAIT or UofC).

You've got a really interesting definition of redneck then. Please share it with me.

quote: You can argue if you like, but next time I'm at the Oilmen's Club I think I'll find more people that agree with me than you.

Oilmen's Club?

Just don't talk about it based on hearsay, it's not in your best interest. I think we have conflicting definitions of redneck, too.

	27-02-2002 03:40									#22
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quote: You've got a really interesting definition of redneck then. Please share it with me.

Actually his definition of redneck is the more accepted one.

	27-02-2002 03:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Actually his definition of redneck is the more accepted one.

He hasn't even shared it yet.
I haven't stated mine yet either. I never said they were uneducated hicks.

	27-02-2002 03:47									#24
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There are two definitions of redneck available on dictionary.com. One from the American Heritage Dictionary:

quote: red·neck Pronunciation Key (rdnk) n. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

Certainly not the case for most of Alberta.

And WordNet:

quote: n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker]

Also not the case in Alberta.

	27-02-2002 03:57									#25
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I think I laid out my definition pretty well ("farmer tans and ... right wing, small town, gun toting, social conservative values" who aren't necessarily uneducated hicks). In case it isn't clear, I meant small town values rather than small town residents. What is your definition?

And I'm pretty sure that most people don't think that the social democrat majority in Saskatchewan are "redneck". They're mostly farmers and they tend to value small town virtues, yes, but they are definitely not mostly fiscal or social conservatives. As you say, they're mostly socialists.

As for the hearsay point - I'm basing my statement on actual recent observations of and conversations with Albertans. That is the exact opposite of hearsay.

And yes, the Oilmen's Club is an odd place, but they represent a big part of Alberta's business culture and they are proud rednecks to the core.

Edit: we posted at the same time - I'm not sure appealing to third party definitions does much good here. I was describing Alberta as populated by a lot of people with "farmer tans and ... right wing, small town, gun toting, social conservative values" who aren't necessarily uneducated hicks. If you want to tell Ecthelion something different, go ahead.

Last edited by - Groucho - on 27-02-2002 at 04:06

	27-02-2002 04:02									#26
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Asher you bolded the wrong part of your definition. Try bolding this part
provincial, conservative,

Then maybe you will see how many Albertans can fit the definition.

	27-02-2002 04:04									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda I think I laid out my definition pretty well ("farmer tans and ... right wing, small town, gun toting, social conservative values" who aren't necessarily uneducated hicks). In case it isn't clear, I meant small town values rather than small town residents. What is your definition?

I quoted from the two definitions in dictionaries.
The term redneck is offensive to everyone I know, I'm really surprised your family and friends call themselves redneck.
It's a term that implies intolerant hick: One who doesn't like immigrants, who is a hardlining conservative, thinks homosexuality is a sin, very religious, etc. That's really not the case for just about everybody I know, so I really don't think it's appropriate to all the province the "redneck capital". There are rednecks here, but everyone I know of is in one of those farming communities far away from the major cities.

quote: As for the hearsay point - I'm basing my statement on actual recent observations of and conversations with Albertans. That is the exact opposite of hearsay.

I don't know who you've been talking to, man, but most people in Alberta live in the two major cities (2/3 of our population). And not one person I've met personally from either of the two cities I'd describe as a redneck. And don't paint me as someone who wouldn't know one when I see one, I lived in Northern California for four years as well and moved back here. There aren't rednecks. If you want rednecks, go to Alabama and Georgia.

quote: And yes, the Oilmen's Club is an odd place, but they represent a big part of Alberta's business culture and they are proud rednecks to the core.

I think the problem here is you're thinking "redneck = conservative", and that's about it.
I know about the oil business in Alberta, my dad's an exec with ChevronTexaco Canada. I've been to way too many stupid dinners with oilpatch people, and I don't think I've met one redneck. They're almost all conservative, though.

	27-02-2002 04:05									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader Asher you bolded the wrong part of your definition. Try bolding this part provincial, conservative, Then maybe you will see how many Albertans can fit the definition.

That's not the point at all. It appears he simply equates rednecks as conservatives. Redneck is an offensive word that has strong connotations with bigotry. That's how everyone I know understands it, and precisely why NO ONE I know would be "proud" to be a redneck.

I'm totally confused as to who he was talking to if he knows so many people that "admit" to being a redneck.

Of course Alberta is the conservative capital of Canada. Everyone knows that. But redneck? No, the rest of Canada gets in a habit of calling us that because we're conservatives. It's not true, or if it is they're using a bastardized definition of the word.

	27-02-2002 04:27									#29
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well lately the term redneck is spreading in popularity. many liscence plates in the U.S. have rednek on them. Even where I live in Las Vegas.

I'm sure they aren't proud of their bigotry. The bigotry part of redneck has been reduced. I think redneck today means white trash.

	27-02-2002 04:28									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Snapcase Doubt it. Vancouver is considered one of the most beautiful cities in the world, let alone Canada.

Just quoting Snapcase because I LIKE that quote.

As with every country beware of the sweeping generalizations that many have used above.

BC is not rainy. But Vancouver, the largest city, and many other coastal areas are rainy to very rainy. But other parts of the province are dry to the point of verging on desert, complete with sagebrush, rattlesnakes and tumbleweeds. Other parts are moderate. Victoria is drier than Vancouver and Kelowna is very dry. Take a map of BC and superimpose it on Western Europe to get an idea of the sense of scale of the province and you will understand why virtually every climate from temperate rainforest to artic tundra is represented.

Canada is not universally cold either. Some years Vancouver will get one or two snowfalls that stick for up to a week or two, but many other years Vancouver gets no snow at all. But the North Shore mountains are covered in snow in the winter and Whistler is less than a two hour drive away. But we have a very mild climate compared to Edmonton in Alberta where I did my uni.

The bad news with BC is the economy. Despite losing four times in international courts over softwood lumber duties, the Americans are again sticking it to us with punitive duties on our softwood exports. Some 'free' trade. Forestry is normally the driver of our economy so things are not easy for employment. The dubious leadership shown by the provincial government has been exacerbating the economic problems for about twelve years now. Even if things turn around it will be years before we fully recover.

I have lived in BC, Ontario, Alberta and I have also travelled in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Nova Scotia. I have so many favourite spots that I couldn't mention them all. The only place I didn't particularly like was Toronto. There is quite a bit of air pollution there and the hot sticky humid summers were not to my liking.