27-02-2002 03:31									#1
	Browsing the forums with Opera... Increase the size of your Attachments

is unfortunately not possible at all. Some changes done to the pages a while ago did something Opera don't like at all. The pages never load completely. As an example opera has now been trying to load www.apolyton/forums/ for over 20 min, and has loaded 13% of the pages. The speed is 7 B/S. If I try the same pages in any other browser they load right away.

Opera is one of the most standard compliant browser there is, so it should not be a problem with the browser.

I ran the pages throuh the w3c validator:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=h...;doctype=Inline

There were a lot of error messages, but this one in particular might be causing some problems:

* Warning: No Character Encoding detected!

If you would consider adding this to your pages, it might do the trick for opera.

Thanks,
Y-S

	27-02-2002 07:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Have you tried it with W3C's own browser, Amya or something like that? I reckon that if any browser is completely compliant, that would be it.

	27-02-2002 10:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have been browsing with Opera 6.01 and it seems to be working fine for me, some of the spacing is a little off, but everything seems to be loading fine. Do you have latest version of Opera? And do you have Java installed? I am running 6.01 with Java installed. Hope this helps!!

	27-02-2002 14:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Rhuarc I have been browsing with Opera 6.01 and it seems to be working fine for me, some of the spacing is a little off, but everything seems to be loading fine. Do you have latest version of Opera? And do you have Java installed? I am running 6.01 with Java installed. Hope this helps!!

I'm having problems with both Opera 6.01 for windows, and with Opera 6.0 beta 1 for linux. Both have java enabled. I have tried switching on and off things in the settings, but can't get it to work. I've got a few friends of mine to try the site too, and they have the same problem.

I'm a little puzzled by this, since it works fine for you

	27-02-2002 21:30									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

When you say you can't get it to work, what do you mean by that? I mean waht and what doesn't load. Are pictures not loading? Or do the end of pages not load? if you could take a screenshot of what it looks like and poast it up maybe I can help you out a little further. Hope this helps!

	27-02-2002 21:42									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Rhuarc When you say you can't get it to work, what do you mean by that? I mean waht and what doesn't load. Are pictures not loading? Or do the end of pages not load? if you could take a screenshot of what it looks like and poast it up maybe I can help you out a little further. Hope this helps!

It always stops at about 13% of the page loaded and then nothing happens for a very long time. If I give it 30-40 min then maybe the page finaly loads.

If I press stop during this time, then parts of the page pop up, but never all of it. It's quite a frustrating way of browsing the forums as you may understand.

It's really weird since this behavior started suddenly one day, without me having changed any settings in my browser or anything like that. It's like opera panics: "Oh no, its apolyton again, lets reduce the speed to 0,000001 b/s"

	27-02-2002 22:31									#7
	Got spare money?

Have you tried completely uninstalling Opera and rebooting, then reinstalling a new clean isntallation

	27-02-2002 22:57									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rhuarc Have you tried completely uninstalling Opera and rebooting, then reinstalling a new clean isntallation

Nope, won't do any good. That's not where the problem lies. And I definately don't see any reason to reboot debian

	28-02-2002 00:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

what os are you using? I am running XP. Maybe that has something to do with why mine is working, but other than that I'm afraid I am all out of ideas!

	28-02-2002 01:49									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I use Opera 6.01 with Win2000 and I have the same problem. It starts of okay and then suddenly it stops around 16, 17%.

When I visit the Apolyton forums I have to fall back to Exploder

Here's a shot of the status bar after a minute of loading...

Attachment: bar.gif
This has been downloaded 95 time(s).

	28-02-2002 03:50									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Rhuarc what os are you using? I am running XP. Maybe that has something to do with why mine is working, but other than that I'm afraid I am all out of ideas!

I'm dual-booting debian (a linux-distribution) and win98SE.

	09-03-2002 21:08									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have this problem too, with 6.01 under both win2k and win98. My pages do load sometimes though, if you leave them for a while. It definitely hangs at the point mentioned in other posts above though.

Another annoying thing is having to have explorer or whatever as your default browser if you want to use the link in emails sent informing you of response to your posts.

	09-03-2002 21:19									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just let Microsoft win.

	09-03-2002 21:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No! Opera is so much better its untrue. When I use explorer for apolyton I get _very_ frustated when my mouse gestures don't work.

	10-03-2002 00:39									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Opera is indeed so much better that it stalls when reading Apolyton.

Report your bug to Opera, not here. It's a bug in their software.

	10-03-2002 01:00									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think the purpose of the thread was to see if anyone else was experiencing the difficulties Yog-Sothoth was; a quite reasonable exercise. Thanks for your helpful advice though.

	10-03-2002 02:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by FireDragon Just let Microsoft win.

**hisses evilly** YESSSSS. Let the M$ shock troops conquer Planet Internet, just as they've nearly done on Planet OS. Soon you shall ALL be drones of the M$ Collective!!!

CYBERAmazon

	10-03-2002 07:59									#18
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Opera is indeed so much better that it stalls when reading Apolyton. Report your bug to Opera, not here. It's a bug in their software.

Sure? Even when ACS is anything but compliant?

	13-03-2002 02:23									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I think the purpose of the thread was to see if anyone else was experiencing the difficulties Yog-Sothoth was; a quite reasonable exercise. Thanks for your helpful advice though.

That was indeed the purpose.

Unfortunately a solution has not emerged, so I think I will try to post something about it to the Opera forum or mailinglist. If I find out anything, I will post it here.

	13-03-2002 02:25									#20
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sure? Even when ACS is anything but compliant?

I'm sure the owners are working around the clock to fix that as we speak

	13-03-2002 03:26									#21
	Suffering from ads?

Who cares, UR?
There's no reason any reasonable browser would STILL because a site does not completely and utterly comply to the W3C "standards".

It's a bug in Opera. It should not stall. It may render improperly, but not stall.

	13-03-2002 03:39									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher Who cares, UR? There's no reason any reasonable browser would STILL because a site does not completely and utterly comply to the W3C "standards". It's a bug in Opera. It should not stall. It may render improperly, but not stall.

You got any other song to sing? This one is getting stale...

	13-03-2002 03:47									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Asher Who cares? There's no reason any reasonable browser would STILL because a site does not completely and utterly comply to the W3C "standards". It's a bug in Opera. It should not stall. It may render improperly, but not stall.

I'm perturbed that my subtle sarcasm went undetected last time.

Anyway you're probably right, it shouldn't happen. It does happen though. We all like opera, so we are going to carry on using it.

	13-03-2002 04:46									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Hueij You got any other song to sing? This one is getting stale...

Hey, when you're right, you're right.
90% of all web browsers on the market are Internet Explorer, but some committee proclaimed themselves to hold the standard and open source advocates started following those "standards" when making their products.

Newsflash: When the only "standards compliant" browsers make up ~5% of the market, and 90% of it is Internet Explorer, Internet Explorer is the real standard, and competing browsers should be designed around that if they have any chance in hell of competiting.

	13-03-2002 08:05									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There's no reason any reasonable browser would STILL because a site does not completely and utterly comply to the W3C "standards".

Is it too hard to ask a website to be compliant to an universally accepted standard, instead of the pseudo stuff that MS have been imposing on the rest of the world?

quote: Originally posted by Asher It's a bug in Opera. It should not stall. It may render improperly, but not stall.

Not necessarily. There's nothing in the W3C standard that says a browser needs to render any improper webpages. It can just sit there and do nothing. Just because IE and Netscape have been forgiving doesn't mean it's a required behaviour.

	13-03-2002 08:13									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Hey, when you're right, you're right. 90% of all web browsers on the market are Internet Explorer

Where did you get that number from?

quote: Originally posted by Asher , but some committee proclaimed themselves to hold the standard and open source advocates started following those "standards" when making their products.

Just the sort of misrepresentation a MS apologist sprouts. It's not some committee, it's a universally accepted standard setting comittee, just like IEEE, ISO, and a few others. Last I checked, Microsoft sat on it too. So what's your bone?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Newsflash: When the only "standards compliant" browsers make up ~5% of the market,

Where did you get this number, and why is this number different from the one above?

quote: Originally posted by Asher and 90% of it is Internet Explorer, Internet Explorer is the real standard, and competing browsers should be designed around that if they have any chance in hell of competiting.

So this is a might makes right argument? Does it mean that, once there are more W2K etc out there with the MS proprietary extensions to Kerberos than the real standard, should the rest of the world all of a sudden switch to the bastardised version instead?

	13-03-2002 09:10									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Where did you get that number from?

http://www.salon.com/tech/col/leon/...lla/index1.html

quote: Just the sort of misrepresentation a MS apologist sprouts. It's not some committee, it's a universally accepted standard setting comittee, just like IEEE, ISO, and a few others. Last I checked, Microsoft sat on it too. So what's your bone?

Errm...
No, it's some committee. It's called the "World Wide Web Consortium", or W3C. MS is a member, you're correct. The problem with things like the W3C (and OpenGL) is that because they are actually based as a committee, changes to specs are slow and hard to pass. Which is why Nvidia introduces all of its cool stuff as extensions to OpenGL rather than changing OpenGL, and MS adds its stuff to HTML and CSS before the W3C. Suddenly anything not completely adhering to the W3C "standards" is not the standard.

quote: Where did you get this number, and why is this number different from the one above?

Because there's not simply two different browser markets. There's modern internet explorers, mozilla/NS6/opera/etc, then older versions of NS 4.x and IE 4.x making up a smaller number.

quote: So this is a might makes right argument? Does it mean that, once there are more W2K etc out there with the MS proprietary extensions to Kerberos than the real standard, should the rest of the world all of a sudden switch to the bastardised version instead?

MS doesn't change extensions for shits and giggles. A lot of the stuff you're complaining about with the HTML specs were done by MS before the W3C made it a standard, and they (intentionally or unintentionally) made some of it slightly different. MS added extensions to Kerberos, they didn't CHANGE it. There's a difference.

Read up on Kerberos in Win2K: http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2000/0511kerberos.html

quote: As proof of its interoperability, Shanen Boettcher, lead product manager for Windows 2000 Server, cites customers such as Morgan Stanley Dean Witter that installed Windows 2000 desktops in a network running an existing Kerberos implementation by a company called CyberSafe in Issaquah, Wash. According to Microsoft, the successful installation of its Kerberos implementation alongside CyberSafe's "validates the interoperability of Kerberos in the Windows 2000 operating system."

Any more FUD you want to throw in the air?
More specific information, including detailed information on how MS added their extensions can be found here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows200...ty/kerberos.asp (posted way back in 1999)

	13-03-2002 15:01									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Asher: please stop threadjacking. I don't want this thread to end as yet another bashing thread. The purpose is to try to find a solution to the problem.

When the forum pages suddenly stopped working, it didn't coincide with me upgrading or changing my opera installation, so they most likely changed something in their forum-code that screws it up for opera.

	13-03-2002 21:41									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

There is no solution to the problem. Opera is buggy, Opera is stalling on some code. Not Apolyton's problem. You can't seriously expect them to pour over every single line of code and change it in hopes of making it so Opera doesn't freeze, when a very very small minority use the browser?

There's no point in whining about it here.

	13-03-2002 21:49									#30
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

If there was a world championship for missing the point...........

You are probably right in what you say, I'm not qualified to judge. However the point of the thread was to see if any other opera users have experienced this problem, and potentially to see if there was any way around it. Even with it being a bug in opera it was worth seeing what other opera users had to say, which is what Yog-Soggoth was doing.