27-02-2002 09:26									#1
	Pizarro, Columbus, Cortez, de Leon.... who needs 'em? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm pretty much a noob on these boards, but I'm sure "the most useless unit" has been beaten to death a few times and once again for good measure already.

So.... How about a "most unused unit" thread? I think a distinction can be made between useless and unused and it probably revolves around play style.

It occurs to me that I have built every unit except one. Sometimes just to see what they look/sound like. Sometimes just to say I have one. But I have NEVER ONCE built an explorer.

And y'know... it's probably the coolest damn unit I've never seen too.

	27-02-2002 09:50									#2
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Most unused unit is the explorer, at least for me. I use scouts as an expansionist civ, but by the time I can upgrade them or replace them, I don't need to use them any more.

Steele

	27-02-2002 09:50									#3
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I'm afraid my "unused unit" list is quite long.

Units I have yet to build in Civ3

Explorer
Cossack
Paratrooper
Marines
Helicopter
Submarine
Fighter
Bomber
Carrier
Cruise Missle
Tactical Nuke
ICBM
Jet Fighter
F-15
Nuclear Sub
Aegis Cruiser
Stealth Fighter
Stealth Bomber

I really haven't played much in the Modern Era, by then the game is usually over. I haven't ever built Cannons or Artillery either, but have upgraded Catapults or captured them.

	27-02-2002 11:02									#4
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UNIT that I don't use

Paratrooper
Marine
Catapult
Cannon
Artillery
Cruise Missle
A. Cruiser
Destroyer
Sub
Nuclear Sub
Privateer
Explorer
Chariot
Fighter
Helicopter


Quite a long list.

	27-02-2002 12:01									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I'm afraid my "unused unit" list is quite long. Units I have yet to build in Civ3 Explorer Cossack Paratrooper Marines Helicopter Submarine Fighter Bomber Carrier Cruise Missle Tactical Nuke ICBM Jet Fighter F-15 Nuclear Sub Aegis Cruiser Stealth Fighter Stealth Bomber ...

I haven't used any of those either! Acctually I haven't gotten to the Modern Age at ALL.

I haven't ever buit tanks either.

	27-02-2002 12:28									#6
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the problem is exploration takes place long before the explorer becomes available.

It probably shouldn't be so easy to reach distant lands in the early game.

	27-02-2002 14:04									#7
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Well, why compiling a list myself

quote: Originally posted by Aeson I'm afraid my "unused unit" list is quite long. Units I have yet to build in Civ3

Explorer - never
Cossack - never
Paratrooper - never
Marines - once
Helicopter - never
Submarine - various
Fighter - various
Bomber - frequently
Carrier - never
Cruise Missle - never
Tactical Nuke - never
ICBM - sometimes , using them only for switch
Jet Fighter - frequently
F-15 - never
Nuclear Sub - once
Aegis Cruiser - never
Stealth Fighter - once
Stealth Bomber - once

quote: I really haven't played much in the Modern Era, by then the game is usually over. I haven't ever built Cannons or Artillery either, but have upgraded Catapults or captured them.

I may add:

Panzer - never
Musketeer - never
Radar Artillery - never, never even seen them
Archer - once
Longbowman - never
Battleship - once
Chariot - once

	27-02-2002 14:04									#8
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hmmmm... I use the cossacks all the time... Cruise missiles too... You don't use f15s? OR bombers?! I think you play too much on chieftan level... try something harder.

	27-02-2002 14:28									#9
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Actually I play almost exclusively on Deity. I've never seen a need for air units. They can't capture/raze cities, kill units, or generate leaders. Ground based bombardment is more efficient anyways.

On the other hand, Cossacks are pretty nice units. I never played the Russians because UU's blocked the upgrade path prior to 1.17f. Upgrading is so powerful in Civ3, that having later Horse UU's was a drawback. I'm sure I'll finally use them now.

	27-02-2002 14:50									#10
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actually, not being to upgrade cossacks doesn't bother me at all. and here's why:

Even an elite cossack can kill a tank with one health point left. This is an amazingly fast way to get leaders. And since cossacks have a move of three I always use them to steal workers and artillery. I never disband these guys. even against modern armour at one point left, an elite cossack can kill it 35% of the time.

I've used almost everything a lot with the exception of paratroopers and helicopters (the most useless machine on the planet). I never understood paratroopers... if there's an empty city near enough to paratroop into my tanks can take it. If I paratroop behind enemy lines to try and attack in a flanking manuver they just get slaughtered. pretty crap units.

marines ARE needed when assaulting a new continent and there are enemy troops on all the beaches (to creat space for the tanks). just don't try using them against a city. I never build or need more then 3 to a game.

	27-02-2002 15:10									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I wasn't talking about upgrading Cossacks, they still can't be upgraded. I was saying that the Russians were penalized for having a UU which took the place of Cavalry. Every other civ could upgrade it's Knights (or corresponding UU) to Cavalry, but the Russian Knights could never be upgraded. 10 or 20 (depending on Leo's) gold is a very cheap price to change a 4/3/2 to a 6/3/3 unit, and the Russians missed out on that until now.

	27-02-2002 15:27									#12
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Ah, sorry, I get you now. Truthfully, I (almost) never build knights. I have gunpowder so fast by then that I just speed along to cavalry (cossacks) which are also good in defence.

	27-02-2002 17:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Truthfully, I (almost) never build knights. ... cavalry (cossacks) which are also good in defence.

Knights and Cavalry have the same defense(of 3).

	27-02-2002 17:52									#14
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Cossacks have a +4 defense ...


AJ

	27-02-2002 20:32									#15
	Remove this text

Units I have yet to build:

Stealth Fighter
Legionary
Cossack
Marine
Paratrooper
Explorer
Helicopter
Jaguar Warrior
Man-o-War
Impi
Panzer
Musketeer
F-15

Units I've built, but don't find useful:

ICBM
Tactical Nuke
Submarine
Nuke Sub
Ironclad (yeah, I know, but I'd rather wait for Destroyers)
Frigate
Fighter
Carrier
Aegis Cruiser

-Arrian

	27-02-2002 21:03									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I never built, and (at this point) never will build:
Explorer
Paratrooper
Marines
Fighter
Helicopter
Radar Artillery
Tactical Nuke
Stealth Fighter
Stealth Bomber
Aegis Cruiser

I built once, but won't anymore:
Chariot
Longbowman
Privateer
Frigate
Submarine
Destroyer
Cruise Missile
ICBM

Note that I left UU's out, substituting their equivalents. An upgrade I count as a building. I did never build a Galleon, but I use upgraded Caravels and Galleys though.

	27-02-2002 22:01									#17
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Remember the days when Chariots were a great unit.
*sigh* those were the days.

	08-03-2002 20:47									#18
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The AI seems to build the apparently useless Longbowmen a lot on my games. Although I will never use it, I made it stronger cos I pitied the AI.

	08-03-2002 20:54									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Explorer.
It`s the only I never use. The helicopter, marines and paratropers are the best.

	08-03-2002 20:55									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Aeson Actually I play almost exclusively on Deity. I've never seen a need for air units. They can't capture/raze cities, kill units, or generate leaders. Ground based bombardment is more efficient anyways.

IMHO bombers are the best/easiest way to bombard (better distance range for bombarding cities, luxury roads, ...).

AJ

	08-03-2002 22:06									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I agree that bombers are the best form of bombardment, just not the most efficient. Catapults upgrade all the way, so a large standing bombardment force is readily available with a slow buildup throughout the game. Also the fact that the AI usually keeps a treasure trove of artillery for the taking in the later stages of the game just means they provide extremely cheap bombardment. Often I only build Tanks/Modern Armor late in the game, and just capture artillery from AI cities for bombardment purposes.

	09-03-2002 00:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy The AI seems to build the apparently useless Longbowmen a lot on my games. Although I will never use it, I made it stronger cos I pitied the AI.

Don't say they're useless, they are a 4-attacker for anybody without horses or iron. Btw, the English longbowmen were famous in history, victorious for example against a huge army of French knights in 1346 (IIRC). A 5-1-1 longbowman would be a much better English UU than this crappy Man-O-War.

	09-03-2002 00:24									#23
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For me, an un-used unit is a useless unit. And these units are:

Explorers, marines, submarines, all ships except the Battleship and the transport, cruise missiles (they dont kill! WTF?!?) and paratroopers and fighters.

Spec.

	09-03-2002 00:45									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't bother with explorers in Civ3 either, for reasons similar to those given above.

But one thing I did to make these units more "accessible" was to change the required technology. In default, explorers don't happen until "navigation." Instead, I set it so that "astronomy" is the required tech; that'd be certainly enough for land movement. But even then, I suspect that the unit's value, at that stage of development, is pretty low.

Perhaps a higher movement allowance (even more than horsemen) would help too?

	09-03-2002 02:19									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Nimokmai Remember the days when Chariots were a great unit. *sigh* those were the days.

back in civ I that was IIRC. in civ 2 chariots (the wheel, 3-1-2) were quickly replaced by elephants (polytheism, 4-1-2)