28-02-2002 03:32									#1
	Foreign Nationals, Pop rushing, help please... arg! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I just started playing civ3 and I have some questions/gripes that maybe someone can help me with.

After reading some posts in these forums I decided to try and knock out my closest neighboor ASAP so I could exploit them the rest of the game. Seems that a lot of what made this strat work was patched in the 1.17. Here's what happened.

I made a 2nd city and pop rushed a barracks and then archers every other turn using workers made in my capital. I know that this will make my citizen very unhappy so I kept the city at size one with an entertainer. When I was satisfied that I had enough of an army I disbanded the city by rushing a settler.

BAD IDEA! The unhappy people somehow moved to my capital and that was now in permanent civil disorder. Feature in 1.17? Ah, serves me right for killing so many people. That's not really my problem.

I captured several foreign workers in my campaign against those dirty Russians. I ended up with a surplus of workers so I decided to add them to some cities to make up for the lost population early on. I had extorted money and tech from the Russians and everything was fine.

After 20 turns I tried to get more by renegotiating peace. They didn't give me what I thought was fair (they actually wouldn't give me anything even though my army was ready to crush them again) so I redeclared war. Moscow (under my control) was unhappy again (stop oppressing our mother country) and this made sense, but all of a sudden I had unhappy people in my capital (20% stop oppressing our mother country). WTF!!!!

I had added a worker to my capital not too long ago. NOTE - I checked everywhere I could think to look and as far as I could tell that worker was Roman (me), not Russian. It said Roman worker. So why the **** are there unhappy Russians in my capital????

Also, even though I could crush them in an instant, the stupid Russians refused to give anything for future peace treaties even though a war meant certain death. Does the AI suicide like this just to screw the human player?

Even more annoying is the fact that the AI will not ever accept a fair trade. 1 for 1 tech trading? HA! Ain't gonna happen as far as I've seen. Maps? The Germans would only trade me maps if I threw in 2 techs and 150 gold. WTF? They weren't any more powerful than me so what gives?

I'm trying to get used to the game but from what I've seen it's like playing all against one: every AI teaming up against me. In SMAC I actually occasionally enjoyed a game like this (all vs. 1) but it was something I could set up with the scenario editor, not my only choice.

I guess I'm about done ranting. Can anyone help with the foreign nationals in my capital question? Thx.

Busta

	28-02-2002 03:37									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think you should be able to jail unhappy people

	28-02-2002 04:46									#3
	Got spare money?

Sorry I can't help you. Just want to let you know that your post made me happy that I'm playing another game right now . Wait, I see another Civ3 loophole in my foot. Close it, close it !! No, that's not enough. Let's smash it; punish it; turn it into an illogical farce and make them all sick in the stomach trying to figure out what the heck this is all about; jail the sinner so he will never dare to play Civ3 and attempt to exploit any loopholes again.
A lot of times, fun is the opposite of serious, so being too serious about a game might not be the best thing to make it fun.

	28-02-2002 05:26									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Regarding 'stupid' AI (Russians) not trying to be peaceful: If they have been at war with you a lot, then maybe you are their 'mortal enemy' and that's the way it's going to be with them. OTH, maybe it's just a random thing this time ....

If another civ is YOUR 'mortal enemy' then you don't suffer near as grievous 'war weariness' when under republic or democracy governments.

	28-02-2002 06:07									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think they were my mortal enemy. I declared war initially, took 2 cities, sued for peace and techs and money, redeclared war because they weren't forking over more stuff in exchange for peace, and that's pretty much it. I only declared war twice, seems a little early for a mortal enemy, although later on they wouldn't even talk to me so it is a possibility.

What I really want to know is why there were unhappy people in my capital because of the war. It said 20% unhappy (stop oppressing our mother country or something like that). There should be no foreigners in my capital. WTF?

	28-02-2002 06:12									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It could be a bug - if you truly don't have any russians in the capital, foreign nationals will cause unhappiness if their home country is at war though it dosen't seem that serious on 1.16.
Maybe your russians have been integrated and become your own Roman, then they shouldn'tbe unhappy, unless its made a mistake.
You'll find different Leaders do diplomacy differently, Russia s Catherine is a bit erratic and miserly - but other nations like the romans or maybe non millitary nations can be more cooperative, remember the Cultural groups.. germans will be friendlier to France as they are the same grouping(look at their building styles) and will make alliances better .. this is why I am keeping friendly with my small neighbouring germans (also because they will soon get nice Panzer tanks )

i'm not sure how you get rid of your own city tho.. it only seems possible with a settler, not a worker anymore.. which is good, but it should be able to destroy your own cities.

civ3s ai is far better than smac - and makes it much more fun and challenging, play with less civs and a smaller map - it may help.. though big maps and few civs let you get a good number of cities which is easier (you won't meet other civs so quick tho.. but just share your comms by trading)

	28-02-2002 06:19									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Admiral... ya the civ 3 ai is better but at least in SMAC it wasn't always everyone vs. you (not until later at least) like it seems to be in civ.

As for getting rid of my city, I had no problem. Just rushed a settler. The problem arose when the city disbanded and all of a sudden all those disgruntled workers were in my capital.

	28-02-2002 09:08									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: I captured several foreign workers in my campaign against those dirty Russians. I ended up with a surplus of workers so I decided to add them to some cities to make up for the lost population early on.

quote: I had added a worker to my capital not too long ago. NOTE - I checked everywhere I could think to look and as far as I could tell that worker was Roman (me), not Russian. It said Roman worker. So why the **** are there unhappy Russians in my capital????

I think you have stumbled upon a new... "feature" that was added in v1.17f. Captured workers will appear in the info box as "Worker (Your Civ)", and not "Worker (Enemy Civ)" as before. But if you right-click on a foreign worker his nationality is correctly displayed.

When you added a worker to your capital, I think you might have added a worker displayed as "Worker (Roman)". Well, that worker is not Roman, but a captured one.

	28-02-2002 09:16									#9
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That's what I suspected... how annoying.

	28-02-2002 12:38									#10
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It seems 1.17 is very balanced. Some good features are balanced by some new bugs. How very ... 'amusing'.

Robert

	28-02-2002 13:06									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm I think you have stumbled upon a new... "feature" that was added in v1.17f. Captured workers will appear in the info box as "Worker (Your Civ)", and not "Worker (Enemy Civ)" as before. But if you right-click on a foreign worker his nationality is correctly displayed. When you added a worker to your capital, I think you might have added a worker displayed as "Worker (Roman)". Well, that worker is not Roman, but a captured one.

This threw me as well. I thought that the workers were mine because it said "Worker (Indian)" (I was India), but when you right-click on it, the true nationality is revealed (in this case "Worker (Persian)"). Workers that you create yourself will just say "Worker" in the info box.

Also, it's possible to capture workers of other nationalities than the one you're fighting. I captured an "English" worker (i.e. he was orange and working for the Queen), but when I right-clicked him I found he was actually a Zulu! (I guess the British were up to their old slaving tricks again....) I added the worker to one of my cities and, sure enough, I had a new content Zulu citizen.

Lastly, it was interesting to see from the chat transcript that nations prefer you add their workers to your city population rather than use them as slaves (of course, they prefer getting them back most of all, but that's just too bad ). Given that they make pretty poor slaves anyway, working at half-speed and whatnot, adding them to cities would seem to make sense. Just make sure you spread them out a bit, and move them away from the front line cities as well, unless you want to see some serious disorder in your cities.