28-02-2002 13:25									#1
	why cant you use X as prereq for something else if X is given to cities from a wonder Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Free buildings from wonders cannot be used as a prerequisite for other buildings!

i'm trying to make a stargate type of device. i want to make it so that only one civ can have it (it is an early airport after all). i want to limit it to two portals, that way you have to strategically choose where you want both portals.

BUT, apparently you can't do anything of the sort, and here is why:

1. if you make Wonder Stargate you can only use that as a prereq for the portal that is built in that city where Stargate is. Wonders do not allow you to build buildings in other cities that need a specific wonder that is to be found in a separate city.

2. if you make Wonder Stargate give a Bldg Spire in each city, and make Sm.Wonder In-port and Sm.Wonder Out-port each have a Spire as a prereq it doesn't work either! You can test this by making the pyramids give a library in each city and then make university have no prereq tech. Build the pyramids and then you have a that free library--however, you cannot now build a university.

Free buildings from wonders cannot be used as a prerequisite for other buildings! Argh! This is so counter-intuitive.

Thus, there is no way to make it so that if your civ builds a certain wonder, that you can limit a second wonder to be built by your civ only (unless you want them both in the same city, which does jack squat for an airport).

I hope someone from Firaxis sees this and makes the change. there has to be a flag somewhere that enables this for free buildings.

Argh! And if I wanted to make this two great wonders, I would be hoping one civ made both (the case could be made for trading among two different civs using the early airways, but i was thinking about it from a transporting units standpoint). Also, you can't make a great wonder require certain goods within the city's boundary. I wanted to make the in and out portals require adamantium in order to be built. SOL now, have to make them just like any old regular required goods.

Last edited by Mizaq on 28-02-2002 at 13:36

	28-02-2002 23:49									#2
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yeap.

	01-03-2002 03:02									#3
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It is true, that must be considered as a bug . However if they change it you shall know that it would result in mush less culture being produced, as the free buildings doesn't give you any culture (if they normally do).

About not filling requirements I thing that they can be considered as a bug. However I'd also like to see the ability to put a wonder as a requirement for a building, so that it would be needed to build any building of a certain type.

	01-03-2002 03:14									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos it would result in mush less culture being produced, as the free buildings doesn't give you any culture (if they normally do).

This is not correct. In korn's blitz mod, the Pyramids provide an 'obelisk' (a culture-only building that yields 1 culture point per turn) in every city. I can confirm that these obelisks yield culture even as 'free' buildings. What doesn't work is the doubling of culture points per turn after 1000 years. Furthermore, the 'free' culture buildings don't show up in the cultural advisor screen, the additional culture point per city does, however.

	01-03-2002 03:27									#5
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep This is not correct. In korn's blitz mod, the Pyramids provide an 'obelisk' (a culture-only building that yields 1 culture point per turn) in every city. I can confirm that these obelisks yield culture even as 'free' buildings. What doesn't work is the doubling of culture points per turn after 1000 years. Furthermore, the 'free' culture buildings don't show up in the cultural advisor screen, the additional culture point per city does, however.

Well, in that case that works. Haven't tested a lot with it, just didn't know how it would work with the file format for the saves. (Guess I can't know everything)

	01-03-2002 05:10									#6
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I probably didn't understand the limitations discussed above, but I wonder whether this has been tried:

Build a Wonder that creates a Gateway in that city. Build a different Wonder in another that creates another Gateway.

Would that work?

	01-03-2002 05:27									#7
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purple: yes that would work, and that is what I am going to end up doing, but it is a flawed solution. That solution means that if you build one side of the gate, you might not get the second side built in time. The gate would be useless for unit transportation if another civ built the other side of it.

	01-03-2002 05:41									#8
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Mizaq, could the 2nd Gateway be a Small Wonder. That way, it would be useless to all but the builder of the GW Gateway. And if an AI civ did build the SW too, for whatever reason, it would serve as a third Gateway if you captured it.

	01-03-2002 05:52									#9
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Well, I was hoping to make the AI want to use it, not just have it for a human player bonusl, and in order to do that I would have to flag it as commercial. With that flag, I'm willing to bet other civs would want it. But you do make a good points. I could make one half of it depend upong the main stargate wonder, and then the two portals could be dependant could be small wonders that require certain resources within their boundaries.

With the addition of one early airport to numerous civs, I am now wondering about the effect on early commerce (these would be buildable near the end of the middle ages).

Good news though, I am over halfway done adding buildings into the editor, although I still need to go through and price them all of the added buildings (there are 2 college ruled sheets of buildings added in my upcoming mod). This weekend is gonna be full of wondersplash screen making and civilopedia entry making. I haven't even started on units yet, *sigh*

	01-03-2002 22:57									#10
	Re: why cant you use X as prereq for something else if X is given to cities from a wonder Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Mizaq Free buildings from wonders cannot be used as a prerequisite for other buildings!

Well you have some bug happening then because I don't have that problem. I just double checked to make sure, and I can indeed use a wonder created building as a prerequisite. My example, I've set my Great Wall to create Walls in every city, plus I've created a Fortress improvement that requires Walls. I just tried to see if I can still build a Fortress, and sure enough I can.

	02-03-2002 02:12									#11
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post your bic will you willem?

attached is the one that i used. pyramids gives libraries in all cities, and libraries are needed for university. you can build a library and then build a university, but you cannot build the pyramids and then build a library.

see attached:

Attachment: prereq.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	03-03-2002 04:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Purple Mizaq, could the 2nd Gateway be a Small Wonder. That way, it would be useless to all but the builder of the GW Gateway. And if an AI civ did build the SW too, for whatever reason, it would serve as a third Gateway if you captured it.

I thought you could only have ONE small wonder per civ. So if you captured it, it would be destroyed. Otherwise, couldn't you have multiple FPs?

	03-03-2002 04:10									#13
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yeah, I'm not sure what capturing a forbidden palace does. I don't remember ever capturing one.

	03-03-2002 04:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Mizaq post your bic will you willem? attached is the one that i used. pyramids gives libraries in all cities, and libraries are needed for university. you can build a library and then build a university, but you cannot build the pyramids and then build a library. see attached:

Sorry, but I still have a lot I want to do before I post my bic. There's been a few people express an interest in it, so I'd like it to be complete before I put it up here. Which also means, I pretty much have my hands full right now with my own mod, and I just don't have the time to look at yours. Nothing personal, but just once I'd like to get to the end of my game. Everytime I get half way through I get a new idea and have to start all over again.

There's always the possibilty that your bic file has been corrupted as well. Have you tried starting from scratch to see if the problem recurs in a new mod? All I know is that I'm having no problems with mine in that way, and I double-checked it after reading your post to make sure.

	03-03-2002 08:04									#15
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oh please. post your bic, I'm calling you out! If it works on your system, just change a few settings with a copy of your civ3mod.bic and then post it. That's exactly what I did: I opened civ3mod.bic, a clean uncorrupted version, made a few changes and then saved it as untitled.bic. Don't tell me that's a corrupted bic. You don't even have to post the bic you're working on, if indeed there is one. I certainly didn't post my unfinished bic and expect people to test off of it.

	04-03-2002 17:56									#16
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Mizaq:

Are you saying after building the Pyramid you can't build library or you can't build university?

If its library then it is right because Pyramid already give you library.

Then again, if you are talking about university.....

	05-03-2002 00:34									#17
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I am talking about building a university. try playing the mod I posted in the previous post, and you'll see what I am talking about.

	07-03-2002 07:56									#18
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Capturing an enemy Small wonder destroys it, although I think capturing culture items should give you some bonus extra culture somehow.

There are interesting uses for building requirements,
I am making a scenario where you need to build a Power Line grid which needs factories, then you can build power generators , and its also needed for SAM defences and Radio Transmitters(television culture etc)

It would be nice to see different city graphics if you got factories/ castle keeps.. like the way the walls do it, I suppose the walls could be replaced to do this, and made into something else.
Its also nice to have to attack a city to test its weaknesses and strength though..
The Problem is after size 6 walls are useless anyhow. Could remove this.

	07-03-2002 10:17									#19
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my plan is to make a manor that is buildable only under feudalism.
the keep is buildable only if manor is built, also only under feudalism.
castle structure buildable only if keep is built. buildable under anything (so it doesn't disappear when switching gov.)

I am trying to stay away from wonders because the effects are too weird right now, esp the lingering effects. hopefully they will come up with a more powerful editor that addresses these.