28-02-2002 18:38									#1
	Ai has problems with unhappiness from hurry production and drafting ;o( Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm in the modern era and upon scanning round many of the other similarly powered AI's cities i notice a worrying trend...

BAsically all of their big cities are starving and filled with entertainers... the AI obviously doesn't recognise the problems that drafting and sacrificing population to hurry production does to their cities.

In one AI city, size of 28, only 8 were working the land, approximately 7 were unhappy and the rest were entertainers.. their food shortage was 8 a turn!!

In 1.16f the unhappy citizen was the one sacrificed so the AI didn't suffer so badly, however, the AI hasn't been adjusted to compensate for the much tougher penalties associated with hurry production and drafting. With the 40 turn penalties for these actions the AI cities crumble to the ground in no time at all...

NO wonder my enemies, the Zulu, only have a collection of 10+ size 1 population cities in the modern era....

In 1.17f the AI is a member of the Crack Suicide squad

Right now, to help this confused AI, i have the turn penalties severely reduced, however, to really solve this the AI needs to be tweaked to cope with the change in population sacrificing since 1.16f!

Regards

	28-02-2002 19:25									#2
	Re: Ai has problems with unhappiness from hurry production and drafting ;o( Tired of ads?

I agree. I reduced the penalty to 20 turns, but I still notice that a lot of the AI cities were extremely tiny in the late game. They were all communist, and probably drafting and rushing themselves into starvation.

There were some large cities, but I don't think as many as with previous versions of Civ3.

I may have to even further reduce the turn penalty. 10 turns for draft? The AI does seem to love the draft.

The 40 turn default is just insane. By the time you're in the modern era, that may as well be "for the rest of the game". It kills commie AIs.

	28-02-2002 19:32									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

As I've commented elsewhere the AI is overzealous with its drafting/pop sacrifice in all versions.

I've approached size 14 or 15 metropolises which have been reduced to 2 or 3 by the time I attack. If I then capture the city it is all but useless as the unhapiness penalty is carried over to me. WTF, I didn't draft them, I didn't slave labour them, I LIBERATED them. And they are sooooooo unhappy.

Even new citizens, either by growth or import 'cannot forget the cruel opression' and they weren't even there!

So I can have captured cities with one pop (all the rest, if any, starved a long time ago) which must specialise. The city is useless. It produces a worker, disbands and a settler takes its place with a new, happy city. Even if it is totally corrupt, it can still produce me a worker every 10 turns or so.

What compounds this is that you cannot tell what the population of a citys' attitude will be before you capture it. You can guess, but you cannot tell, after all maybe the market plce will survive the war. If you could decide whether to raze after you've been inside the city screen for the first time it would be far better.

Well, 'k'em, I'll raze their beautiful city, turn them into slave workers and whatderyknow? They're happy!

Now I'm all for putting obstacles in my way to make beating the AI harder, indeed in CIV2 and SMAC I eventually wouldn't play without some self-imposed restrictions. And realism, well I ain't fussed about realism, after all its just a game. I'll accept that there is a small chance of a spearman beating a tank (0.06% I think) makes for good gaming.

But citizens who hate me because I liberate them and love me because I destroy their home town. Well, stretches the 'concious suspension of disbelief' a little bit.

	28-02-2002 20:48									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I haven't "upgraded" to 1.17f yet since I was hearing too many horror stories; impossible tech race, rediculous demands in diplomacy and system crashes. But this may make it worth it. I've always hated how the AI nonchalantly pop rushes all those settlers and keeps drafting soldiers every time I'm about to sieze his city . But now the AIs are getting their due. Finally I will be rewarded for patiently building those temples and libraries while I watch the AI cities implode into an urban wasteland of misery and bacchanalianism.

	01-03-2002 08:14									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by godinex

I suppose you have a good solution to this.

	01-03-2002 18:26									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Damn straight. The last game I played was just pathetic. When the Americans swapped over to Communism, all of their 14-16 size cities all were 3 or 4 by the time my tanks reached them. Even if they were able to repel my defense force, the extreme whip cracking had reduced them to almost zero production.

I'm not a huge fan of the extra unhappiness either. Sheesh, I capture a city of size 1, keep it and I have to keep the citizen as an entertainer because the stupid unhappiness prevents the citizen from working. Personally I think when you capture a city, all previous shenanigans should be erased (i.e. clean slate for the liberators).

	01-03-2002 19:12									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by jabroni154 ... I think when you capture a city, all previous shenanigans should be erased (i.e. clean slate for the liberators).

They should be reversed. Happiness for Unhappiness and Unhappiness for Happiness. It's a design flaw.

	11-03-2002 14:34									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Another game played and same occurrences...

The majority of the communist AI cities are all 1 pop! The AI basically just pop rushes its cities down to a single entertainer in an attempt to carry out a war. When i then take these cities the citzen just remains in a state of unhappiness forever due to the "cruel oppression you brought down on us!"

Only the war mongering civs in monarchy are able to conduct a war successfully with this new unhappiness rules.

So, to be able to see effective AI comminists waging war i've been forced to reduce the unhappiness from pop rushing and drafting to only 3 turns!!

Seems to work better and keep the AI competitive in the late game