28-02-2002 20:48									#1
	Habsburg sceanrio is ready Remove this text

Hi everyone,

Version 1 of the Habsburg scenario is now available here; http://ctpmodmakers.0catch.com/Tigger/tigger.html

This is set in 1519 with player 1 as the Habsburgs desperately trying to hang on (and expand) their empire in the face of hatred from the French and the Ottomans. Martin Luther’s proclamations mean that the cities in the German states are on the verge of rebellion. Please let me know what you think of it It uses a gigantic europe map and has 8 civs. Please use whichever diplomacy model you like best.

Proposals for version 2 are ideas, which came to me as I worked on the scenario…,I’d be interested for other peoples thoughts.

1. Is it too easy to be the largest empire. Should the scenario be about the Dutch rebellion, with player 1 attempting to achieve independence as the Dutch?
2. If not should the rebellion idea be extended so that Amsterdam would also rebel very easily.
3. Armies constantly mutinied at this time, how about a mutiny check every time you attempt to attack another army?
4. The French cannon was the best artillery whilst the Spanish terrico was the best infantry at the time, how about some new units that are civ specific?
5. How about a recreation of the Spanish silver train? And the English piracy?
6. I definitely need to improve the cities and make them look more realistic (FE Sweden look very futuristic)
7. Charles V struggled to get the disparate parts of the empire to pay taxes for wars far away. Should I have a special unit of Charles who when he starts a turn in a city gets extra money but increases unhappiness?
8. I want to get involved with the personalities to get a better feel in the game.

That’s all the initial thoughts I have but please, any feedback will be welcome even if you don’t like it.

Tigs

	28-02-2002 22:30									#2
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Hi, I attempted to download your file but the link to the file seems to be inaccurate...

	28-02-2002 22:54									#3
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There was a typo in the file name. I fixed it, the link should work now.

	01-03-2002 02:20									#4
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Hi the link is working but when i try to lunch the scenario, I have got the following errors:

'withdraw.slc' not found in asset tree

and

C:\[ctp2 path]\scenario\.\csen000\default\gamedata\script.slc:2743: syntax error

I installed the patch 1.11 and ctp2 modswapper is also installed.

Many thanks for your efforts though. Thx in advanc for your answer.

	01-03-2002 02:58									#5
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The scenario assumes you are using Dale's diplomod and withdraw scripts.

If you want them, you can get them here, or else if you don't want them, open script.slc (in the scenario folder) and delete the lines (at the bottom)

code:

#include "diplomod.slc"

#include "withdraw.slc"

	01-03-2002 03:32									#6
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many thanks...

	01-03-2002 05:15									#7
	Re: Habsburg sceanrio is ready Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Without having played the scenario yet (no time):

quote: Originally posted by tigger 1. Is it too easy to be the largest empire. Should the scenario be about the Dutch rebellion, with player 1 attempting to achieve independence as the Dutch?

Since I'm Dutch I'm probably the last person to ask about this. My answer is, predictably: YES, YES, YES!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! MAKE IT SO!

quote: 2. If not should the rebellion idea be extended so that Amsterdam would also rebel very easily.

Well, under Charles V the Dutch were pretty quiet, in part because Charles was from Ghent himself IIRC and he spoke Dutch and everything. In this scenario you could go either way: in real history, Amsterdam grew very powerful in those days because of trade with the Baltic and (later) the Far East; (individual and collective) freedom and independence have always been very important values in Dutch culture (hence the liberal policies on drugs and stuff); religious problems really only started to become a big problem after Charles had abdicated(sp?); one could argue that the combination of those factors made a Dutch strive for independence inevitable. One could also argue that if Charles V had stayed in power, the Dutch would have remained calm since he was such a nice chap (in the eyes of the Dutch).

Gameplay-wise, the more events the better I suppose (within reason of course), so this would be a nice idea.

quote: 3. Armies constantly mutinied at this time, how about a mutiny check every time you attempt to attack another army?

Hmm, it would be an interesting option but perhaps it would only end up annoying the player? I guess that only by trying it out and balancing it carefully you can determine if it'll work or not.

quote: 4. The French cannon was the best artillery whilst the Spanish terrico was the best infantry at the time, how about some new units that are civ specific?

Sounds cool. If you need ideas: plenty of choices here. Dutch: a ship of some sort: Fluyt, Privateer, East-Indiaman, Ship of the Line. German/Polish: Teutonic Knight. Turkish: Janissary? Bombard? (not sure about the timeframe of these two). Arab (as far as they fit on the map): Camel Rider, Dervish. English: Longbowman? Man-of-War? Russian: Cossack? Hussar? You may want to check the Civ3 Civilizations and Creation/Files forums if you need more ideas. If you need anything specific I could dig around a little for you (both in Civvish and in historic sources).

quote: 5. How about a recreation of the Spanish silver train? And the English piracy?

Sounds cool to me...

quote: 7. Charles V struggled to get the disparate parts of the empire to pay taxes for wars far away. Should I have a special unit of Charles who when he starts a turn in a city gets extra money but increases unhappiness?

Hmm, could be interesting...

I'll probably have more when I've actually played...

	01-03-2002 05:50									#8
	Re: Re: Habsburg sceanrio is ready Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Locutus English: Longbowman? Man-of-War? ...

English: Man-o-War WELSH: Longbowman
It's easily forgotten in the mists of time(and the text-books of the conquerer), but the Longbow as used very successfully by the English armies of the time, were a welsh invention and after Henry V victorious campaign in bringing the welsh to heel(He was a welshman himself), he used this effective weapon in many famous 'English' victories. In fact various English king's used Welsh Longbowmen.sniff. just don't mention rugby

	01-03-2002 12:23									#9
	Re: Re: Re: Habsburg sceanrio is ready Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor In fact various English king's used Welsh Longbowmen.sniff. just don't mention rugby

So it probably wouldn't be wise for me to point out that Longbowmen were really an ancient Indian invention?

	01-03-2002 14:40									#10
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Tigger two problems detected at the moment one you Havant put the pacicon in I promised you so here it is.

The other thing is the only one civ bit. if you want to make it only one civ in the empire bit of the scenario editor click on it and click Spain.

Attachment: packicon.zip
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	01-03-2002 16:30									#11
	Re: Habsburg sceanrio is ready Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by tigger 5. How about a recreation of the Spanish silver train? And the English piracy?

That was one of the things I was really looking forward to putting into a Civ3 scenario with strategic resources. A trans-Atlantic triangle Trade route. But alas, no city placement

If you can get it working for this, it'd be great though.

	01-03-2002 16:40									#12
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Big Mc - if we're talking of deliberate mistakes how about the fact that I claim the scenario starts in 1519 when it starts in 1521. Sorry Big Mc, I just haven't had chance to do anything since we last commmunicated. Forgive me.

Yservel - sorry I really should've said about diplomod. Its just that I think the ordinary AI is poor.

Locutus - well my uncle lives in Holland so I'm biased too! As for the other units both you and CoT's ideas sound great. Is it me or is this going to end up a Renaissance Mod?

The mutiny idea might be annoying, how about if it was trigger should players gold get below a certain point (armies tended to mutiny if they weren't paid) that way the player could avoid it altogether but they might have to let other priorities slip in order to avoid mutiny?

I like the piracy idea but have not had any thoughts on how it could be implemented. But I really want to do the special unit idea. It is important that it includes the idea to imprison the special unit rather than kill it.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

	02-03-2002 21:26									#13
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Hi Tigger,
Fine slic-work and some new inspirations in the Habsburg scenario.
Other guys can learn a lot from some new slic-work - that is what we need.
I hope you will further try to create some new slic-work.

Best wishes
Fritz

	02-03-2002 23:44									#14
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Fritz- Thanks but if I'm being honest the SLIC is very much inspired by the Alexander scenario with some crucial help form Locutus (but I haven't been assimilated yet )

I must confess Fritz that your Seven Years War scenario was the first scenario I actually played! It was a big influence.

Child of Thor - I guess you want to mention Rugby today?

Yservel - how are you getting on? Sorry about the niggles (theres not much I can do at work) thanks IW for sorting them out!

Big mc - did the beer arrive?

Seriously I've a couple of questions;

1.What do you players think of the scenario?
2.I think version2 comes down to the question of whether it is best to remain as the Habsburgs or to be a smaller civ for more of a challenge. Either way I'm going to create more units and many, many more events. But would anyone prefer to be a different civ? Locutus isn't allowed to suggested the Dutch!

	03-03-2002 03:06									#15
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could not get my copy you e-mailed me to work.
I will try to download it monday

	04-03-2002 14:28									#16
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Any further problems, give me a shout and I'll e-mail it again

	04-03-2002 17:19									#17
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thanks

	04-03-2002 22:40									#18
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quote:

Originally posted by tigger
5. How about a recreation of the Spanish silver train? And the English piracy?


That was one of the things I was really looking forward to putting into a Civ3 scenario with strategic resources. A trans-Atlantic triangle Trade route. But alas, no city placement

If you can get it working for this, it'd be great though.


IW - you tried using an Atlantic map then? I'm a little vague on the city placement problem. Alternatively can a silver ship be created at the edge of the map every few turns? A quick message about it and some random placement might make piracy possible but hard? - I'm guessing that there was a lot of luck involved in real piracy at this time?

	05-03-2002 01:55									#19
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Big Mc I can't get the packicon to work!

	05-03-2002 14:16									#20
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What’s the problem

it download OK I hope

	05-03-2002 14:52									#21
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I've put it in the Habsburg zip at http://ctpmodmakers.0catch.com/Tigger/tigger.html

It looks corrupted. See what you think.

	05-03-2002 15:17									#22
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I will have a look tonight one error I seam to see is that you have only put it as your pack icon and not the other scenario icon. This will just show up in the main scenario bits. I will sew wats up when I get it home tonight.

	17-08-2002 22:35									#23
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OK another thread where I can ask what happened, therefore the same questions: Is there a change that we will ever see a new version of the Habsburg scenario and if not is there at least a change to see it in the Apolyton Directory?

-Martin

	22-08-2002 00:05									#24
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Sorry.....had a major break out of real life. I discovered that a new job and summer was not a good combination for scenario writing. I still want a new Habsburg scenario - based on the 80 years war - and have a few good ideas. Just need a while longer to get my life organised!

	22-08-2002 15:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by tigger Sorry.....had a major break out of real life. I discovered that a new job and summer was not a good combination for scenario writing. I still want a new Habsburg scenario - based on the 80 years war - and have a few good ideas. Just need a while longer to get my life organised!

At least you have a first version released, that could be added to the Apolyton Directory. Or was the first version meant as a test version?

-Martin

	22-08-2002 21:33									#26
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I'm happy for it to go into the directory. The second one will be so different it effectively becomes a different scenario.

	23-08-2002 02:09									#27
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quote: Originally posted by tigger I'm happy for it to go into the directory. The second one will be so different it effectively becomes a different scenario.

I have the feeling you have no idea how to do it. Of course I could do it for you, but then the file would be owned by me and this wouldn't be right. So you have to do it yourself.

First you have to update your profile. To do this go to your controll panel and there go to Edit Profile, once you are there you have to fill out the fields First Name: and Last Name: Fill them with ever you like just make shure that it least contain in the end one character (of course or more) like '-'. Of course you could also select a contry flag if you like. Once this is done you can go to the Apolyton Derectory CTP2 Scenario Category . Once you are there you have to log in even you was looged in in the forum before.

After logging in you can use the "Add Link" link and you can fill out the linked form. I only doubt if a direct link to the modmakers depot will work here, but I am shure if it does not work Locutus will help.

-Martin

	23-08-2002 23:38									#28
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Good guess Martin

Thanks for the info, will do it when real life calms down. Probably the end of next month.

	24-08-2002 02:47									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann I only doubt if a direct link to the modmakers depot will work here, but I am shure if it does not work Locutus will help.

Why would that not work? All that link field does is let me know from where I should upload the file to Apolyton, technically it doesn't even have to be an URL. Even a description of where the file is would work in theory, although a simple link would probably be the easiest for me.

I'm not sure in what state the Habsburg scenario is right now (it's been a while), but it should be obvious that the Directory is only for finished files, not for alphas or betas. If you feel the file is ready for public release, feel free to submit it, but if it's still quite buggy it would be better to wait a while longer...

	24-08-2002 02:58									#30
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oops