01-03-2002 20:09									#1
	need strat help on "moscow" scen Enter the AD-FREE zone

Im posting this here, as art of war forum seems dead.


Im having extreme difficulty with "moscow". scen i got from CSC about rise of Muscovy, 1300 to 1600. It looks interesting, with cossack villages, expansion to siberia, etc but - Im playing on king (!!!!) and getting beaten early. Playing as Moscow Russians, of course.

Start with one city Moscow. Ive tried playing like an OCC, going for carvans, but that doesnt work - ive got enough money, only need a few techs, mainly need shield prod and military.
I go for land reform first, to build pop and use my settler, and then when i get ortho patriarchy from events, i go for oprichniki (fundie) ive tried taking 2 great russian cities west of moscow to keep them out of hands of expanding Tatars, relying on my citadels to hold back great russians from east. I build the King richard equivalent right away, and the foundries and mills, maybe getting one caravan for a trade route meanwhile.
And invariably the tatars go to war. They simply automatically go to war in certain years, without so much as a sneak attack notice. Then they wont talk, so my great wall wonder doesnt help. ANd they have powerful units, 8 and 10 attacks, which seem to ignore city walls, despite no mention in the civilopedia. How else can a 10 attack cavalry-type unit, even a vet, take out my 2 defensemen, who is doubled against cavs, is fortified, is vet, and is behind city walls? They come in and wipe out my 2 outlying cities.
Im thinking that maybe i should have stayed with just the one city till i got oprichniki, or is it that this scen is just buggy and unwinnable?

Anyone ever played it? Any ideas?

LOTM

	01-03-2002 23:55									#2
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Yes, I've played it and it was a brilliantly made scenario.
But that was about 6 months ago so I don't remember it very good. I was also playing king difficulty and I somehow manadged to build a big empire.
You have to start the game very carefully, the beginning is the most important. Build some units and attack Mozhaisk and Kolomna (you should be able to defend Moscow with those 2 citadels just east). Then you should have 3 cities altogether.
Try to conquer Tula and make that city a fortress to defend yourself from those nasty Tatars. Then build as many units (try to discover trebuchets quickly) and attack Greatrussian cities to the west (I started with Vladimir and Suzdal). You should be able to destroy Greatrussians (they are the weakest).
Then you should start an all-out war against the Tatars (after a loooong time I reached Kiev) etc.
After that experience I conquered all the Novogorodian cities and Whiterussians.
If you've achieved this you won't have any more problems with the game.

That's how I remember it (I've forgotten all my scientific and building achievements). All in all, the Tatars were the biggest pest.

	02-03-2002 00:01									#3
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Just downloaded it. The unit you mentioned should be 'horde'. It has attack 10, fp3, and move 3. Your defense unit has defense 2 (trippled by city walls), and fp 1. Fortification doesn't count if wall factor comes into play. It is obvious that you will lose the battle.

None of your units is its counter. You have to prepare for losing two defense units against it, then use your cannon type unit to destroy it the next turn. If you can build diplos maybe it is a good idea to bribe it, since it is not very expensive. The events.txt file indicates that the Tartars will attack the first civ to develop 'renounce of yoke' tech. Hence, do not develop it too early.