07-03-2002 01:08									#31
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If I may suggest something, all of us going up the same tech path will be counterproductive. As the drones and Hive will be slower researchers, the number of techs we will need to be gifted to assist in getting to enviro ec will be high and would just shaft our tech rates.

I propose that have two teams of two -- uni and ceo are faster and will head for crawlers and enviro ec-- while the drones and I head up the military path to get HEC and DAP. This way, each group can avoid any techs they do not want. As an example, my Hive uses police and would likely not need or want social psych until later game and ethical calc is hardly a priority for us either. The economic guys can avoid applied physics, doc mob and doc flex until they want them but still have airpower.

qantaga knows that we used this technique in Democracy in Peril wher my drones were obtaining airpower for the group around the same time as the Uni-morgan combo donated enviro ec.

	07-03-2002 01:13									#32
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I think I can agree to that. We need to hear from the Provost, however.

	07-03-2002 02:19									#33
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If he is not, then we have a situation where the 3 of us together could leave even the uni in the tech dust.

The harder question in all this is what happens if we manage to defeat the aliens-- could be interesting.

	07-03-2002 02:34									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose What about SPs? Disagreement over projects is one quick way to kill tech sharing agreements, in my experience.

This is an interesting question, especially when added to Flubber's question about what happens if/when we defeat the aliens.

Perhaps for the SPs, we can all "claim", either diplomatically or by some other method, one early SP each. Then, once we all have IndAuto, EnvEcon and D:AP in hand, the SPs will be open game (subject to faction negotiations, of course). These three techs might also serve as a pre-determined time for all of us to re-evaluate our mutual Pacts. I am open to any suggestions.

	07-03-2002 03:14									#35
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Good questions all


I will be completing centauri ecology next turn and if anyone has it, the gift would be appreciated and returned. Longer term, just thinking . . ..

uni would likely go for the VW but the rest are up in the air. I would prefer to get the WP and with ecology next turn I would have a strong possibility of getting it even if contested BUT I do not want to get in a fight over it.


I am willing to contemplate any and all arrangements as long as they are equitable

errr I forgot to say --2115 to archaic

Last edited by Flubber on 07-03-2002 at 03:42

	07-03-2002 04:36									#36
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2115 to Mon

:/ I knew I should have read this first before playing my turn.

I've got Eco, but it looks like now it's too late to send it to you.

As for SP's, I'm certainly gunning for VW above all others, at least in this early game. Sort out the rest amongst yourselves.

	07-03-2002 09:38									#37
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MY 2115 to Q.

	07-03-2002 10:03									#38
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2116 sent to Flubber.

Pacts offered to Flubber and Archaic.

Archaic, are you in agreement with the plan that you and Mongoose will try to coordinate the beelines toward IndAuto and EnvEcon while Flubber and I coordinate toward D:AP?

	07-03-2002 11:50									#39
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I am.

	07-03-2002 21:28									#40
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Curious note #2

Scenario starts are a bit different than 'normal' ones. In this game, I have to prototype synthametal. In a SP game, for instance, Morgan already has done so.

As a sidelight on a very old debate, there is some support to permitting the reverse engineering of the rover chassis from planetary nets. Consider: if you get planetary nets before D:M, and for example Applied Physics before D:M, and you have already built a 2-1-1 infantry unit, when you do get D:M, you find that there is no prototype cost for a recon rover. Hmmm... Sometimes, especially as Morgan or Deidre, you WANT to have as many prototype rover chassis units as you can build, for the morale benefit. (IIRC Vel espoused this very thing in his guide.)

Just food for thought.

	07-03-2002 21:29									#41
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2116 to archaic

I sent centauri ecology to qantaga and have chosen doc mob as my next research choice (applied physics was not an option anyway).

Qantaga, since you have ind base anyway, perhaps you can go for applied physics and HEC (when your research starts). By then we can jump in with mongoose and archaic (who probably will have crawlers by then) in getting to genesplicing (which both beelines need and is a handy tech anyway)

Just a suggestion, let me know what you think. As for other tech gifts, I guess I will request those that I want. I will take planetary networks as soon as I build up another 40 ec to switch to planned

	08-03-2002 04:32									#42
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2116 to Mongoose.

I should have Planetary Networks in 2 turns, and I'll likely follow that with Social Psych and SOTHB.

	08-03-2002 06:33									#43
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MY 2116 to Q.

Got Ind. Econ., switched to FM. Options were D:M, Prog. Psych., Biogenetics, Infonets, and Applied Physics. I chose Biogenetics. Can you send that to me in the next 3 turns, Archaic? I think I'll discover it in 4 turns otherwise. Hopefully, the next set of options will have something on our line.

I also sent 30 ec to Flubber, to help cover the SE change cost. Archaic, you can send him planetnets as soon as you get it, he's all set to go PLANNED now.

Y'all sure are getting some nice pod pops, I must say! I just popped my first this turn and turned up an energy bonus tile...on a river, no less.

	08-03-2002 08:10									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose I just popped my first this turn and turned up an energy bonus tile...on a river, no less.

Very nice, Vel's mythical "holy grail" square.

Unfortunately, my only two tech choices were D:Mob and InfoNets. Since D:Mob is on the path to D:AP and InfoNets isn't, I chose D:Mob. Flubber and I will just have to do a little tech two step for the next tech.

2117 to Flubber.

	08-03-2002 14:19									#45
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2117 to archaic

Thanks gang

Archaic-- is it not possible to get a chance at ind auto as your next tech ?? . Mongoose can gift you ind ec and you are researching planetary net. . . is it your plan to get crawlers before heading for restrictions lifting?

qantanga
Your available choices were not ideal for our plans but i will gift you doc: mob when i get it and then perhaps one of us will get app physics as a choice.

	08-03-2002 14:30									#46
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Is it, but I'd prefer to deny the AI the opportunity to get SOTHB first if at all possible. A free tech. is nothing to be sneezed at.

Right now though I'd be more concerned about your system. That zip you sent me has a virus of some sort. Hotmail wouldn't even let me download the attachment because of it.

	08-03-2002 21:05									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Is it, but I'd prefer to deny the AI the opportunity to get SOTHB first if at all possible. A free tech. is nothing to be sneezed at.

Good enough-- I have often pondered the value of the extra tech as against being a bit slower obtaining other techs. I never fully satisfied myself which way was best. Whatever you folks see as the best route, go for it, but IMHO getting crawlers as fast as possible is a huge advantage

quote: [SIZE=1] Right now though I'd be more concerned about your system. That zip you sent me has a virus of some sort. Hotmail wouldn't even let me download the attachment because of it.

Don't know what to say on this. I updated Norton antivrus on my machine and found nothing wrong with this file. I left the machine doing a complete virus check when I had to come to work.

I emailed the same turn to myself from my yahoo address to my hotmail address and downloaded the turn using hotmail. The anti-virus program in hotmail allowed the turn to download, no problem.

We are left with a couple of options

1. I have a virus but for some reason it is undetectible to all my anti-virus stuff or
2. Archaic's anti-virus stuff gave a "false" positive due to some non-virus problems in transmission, in hotmail or whatever


I think it is likely a false positive since my hotmail screening should be identical to his hotmail screening and mine was clean. But I am very concerned about the possibility of spreading any virus so I will run that file through the (very good and constantly updated) anti-virus stuff here at work before sending it on.

	08-03-2002 21:16									#48
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hey

ran two more anti-virus tests and all came back clean. I do not know any more ways for me to test this so

2117 to archaic

	08-03-2002 21:24									#49
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Flubber and I are in other games together. I have run another game file through two anti-virus screeners on my machine and there is no indication of a virus, so I would also guess that it is a "false positive".

	09-03-2002 04:21									#50
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2117 to Mongoose

	09-03-2002 10:04									#51
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MY 2117 sent to Q.

Not sure where we left the discussion of SoTHB vs. Ind. Auto. To be safe, I sent Archaic Ind Econ. If you want to stick with Brain, Provost, don't accept...I'll remove it next turn and we'll still have time (just) for you to send me Biogenetics before I discover it on the following turn.

	09-03-2002 10:11									#52
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2118 to Flubber.

	09-03-2002 20:51									#53
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I just had another thought. If you want to go for Brain, Archaic, you could send me both planetnets and biogenetics...perhaps I'll get IndAuto as an option.

And another...iif you do go for Brain, it only makes sense that we all give you all our techs before you get it. We wouldn't want to waste the free tech on one we collectively already knew. Hmmm, I play directed research rarely and I almost never get Brain first. In these circumstances, will you get an option for which is the free tech? If so, maybe we don't have to load you up with all our collelctive techs. Anybody know?

	10-03-2002 03:51									#54
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2118 to Mongoose.

I was planning on exactly that.

I'd get the same options as if I was researching a new tech, so I'd likely be rather limited on my choices. If I have a tech of course, I won't be presented with it as an option, so loading me up with the collective techs (But only once I've started actually researching SoTHB) would be the most effecient and safest way. I'd of course be gifting whatever I did end up getting to everyone else, and put us all on an even keel in the tech. tree.

	10-03-2002 04:14									#55
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and don't forget to send me planetary networks as soon as it is obtained

I will also take ind auto ASAP but as for the rest, I will not want them yet.

	10-03-2002 04:45									#56
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MY 2118 to Q.

Flubber, hit a pod for cash? I give the poor guy 30 ec to just cover his SE change...turn around and he has more money than I do! What's wrong with this picture? j/k

PS. It would be kind of funny if Marr has already beaten us to SotHB.

	10-03-2002 10:35									#57
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Already sent to you Flubber.

From the way fungboy was harassing me for Biogenetics and the fact he starts with Social Psych, I'd say no one's got SoTHB just yet.

	10-03-2002 18:44									#58
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2119 to Flubber.

	11-03-2002 02:32									#59
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2119 to archaic


I did hit a pod and got cash-- I can return your 30 ec if you wish

	11-03-2002 04:02									#60
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2119 to Mongoose.