05-03-2002 01:27									#1
	Diplomatic Moivations of the AI Got spare money?

I want to start a thread to discuss the AI motivations that determine its diplomatic status toward you. Some things are obvious, if you attack a tribe it will be furious with you, but other actions are more subtle and could use clarification.

For example, what impact does offering a trade simply to look at what the other tribe has and then backing out without making a deal have on their opinion of you? Trading with tribes certainly improves relations, but can this be quantified? What kinds of trades produce the best relations? Do trades that involve payments over time improve relations or make them weaker? Is it better to offer more in a trade to improve relations or is it better to trade for the minimum possible and then gift the rest to the tribe in a separate deal?

Also, is there a way to wage war that doesn’t automatically lose the trust of the other tribes? It seems that if I attack another tribe I face a much more hostile diplomatic climate for the rest of the game. Can you ever recover from it if you do need to attack someone? What is the diplomatic impact of being the leader in a game? The AI expects you to share some of your prosperity, but how much is reasonable?

Finally, what are the requirements for a tribe to vote for you as UN leader? I have tried to win by Diplomatic victory twice and I have yet to score a single vote. Both times, however, there were several tribes that were “polite” toward me. Is there some way to tell for certain if a tribe will vote for you, or is the UN vote always a toss of the dice?

	05-03-2002 05:22									#2
	Re: Diplomatic Moivations of the AI Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mute For example, what impact does offering a trade simply to look at what the other tribe has and then backing out without making a deal have on their opinion of you?

This was confirmed in the recent chat that just looking at what they have to offer doesn't change relations with the AI.

quote: Also, is there a way to wage war that doesn’t automatically lose the trust of the other tribes? It seems that if I attack another tribe I face a much more hostile diplomatic climate for the rest of the game.

Yep, get them to declare war on you!! The easiest way is to make really lopsided trade deals with them (we give 1 gold for all your techs and cities) until they are very annoyed with you, and then demand they remove their troops from your land or declare war. In that mood, they will declare war.

quote: Finally, what are the requirements for a tribe to vote for you as UN leader?

Sorry, never tried to win by UN vote (disabled at the start of the game) so can't comment on that one.

	05-03-2002 15:19									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

The trouble with trying to make the AI declare war on you is that more often than not the AI doesn't have any units to be retreated -which means you can't make the according demand of withdrawal.

	05-03-2002 17:50									#4
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If you can't ask them to leave then there are other ways.

I like creating a spy. It costs money but by the time I can create spys I usually have some spare cash lying around. In this case you want to FAIL in getting a spy. Then do it again. Just keep trying and failing till they declare war.

If you succeed in planting a spy then try to do something with it. Preferably something cheap and prone to failure. I managed to provoke a war this way with a vastly inferior Civ in recent game on Chieftan level.

OK I was slumming on Chieftan level.

	06-03-2002 10:44									#5
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Yea! That's the only use for Espionage - getting them to declare war on you!

	06-03-2002 13:09									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle Yea! That's the only use for Espionage - getting them to declare war on you!

I think you take a diplomatic hit when caught doing espionage.

However there are 2 valid uses for spies (and neither of them are a spy mission).
The first is the most obvious - You get to see exactly how many of each unit type the enemy has. Rather than a 'They are stronger than us' comparison, we can see the enemy has 50 horsemen and 25 warriors or whatever.
The second use for spies is in the space-race. It will show you how many components the civ you have a spy in have built. This will save you from suddenly being told that you have lost after had finished their spaceship.

An alternative way to get the AI to declare war on you is to make it think its military is larger than yours. As the AI counts workers as military units, sell a large amount of workers to the AI. It then thinks your military is weaker than before, its own military is stronger than before, and the conclusion it draws is . . .

	06-03-2002 14:50									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred If you can't ask them to leave then there are other ways. I like creating a spy. It costs money but by the time I can create spys I usually have some spare cash lying around. In this case you want to FAIL in getting a spy. Then do it again. Just keep trying and failing till they declare war. If you succeed in planting a spy then try to do something with it. Preferably something cheap and prone to failure. I managed to provoke a war this way with a vastly inferior Civ in recent game on Chieftan level. OK I was slumming on Chieftan level.

Well... it seems to me that when *you* are the one spying, you are also the one that receives (at least some of) the black mark. I don't think the war-by-spy-caught is blamed on the enemy like the war-by-retreat is.

	06-03-2002 18:54									#8
	Re: Diplomatic Moivations of the AI Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mute Also, is there a way to wage war that doesn’t automatically lose the trust of the other tribes? It seems that if I attack another tribe I face a much more hostile diplomatic climate for the rest of the game. Can you ever recover from it if you do need to attack someone?

It is not a dishonor to start a war, only to break an agreement. Cancel any peace treaties before you attack.

	06-03-2002 21:51									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy Well... it seems to me that when *you* are the one spying, you are also the one that receives (at least some of) the black mark. I don't think the war-by-spy-caught is blamed on the enemy like the war-by-retreat is.

The idea, when I did that, was actually to avoid the quick onset of war weariness that could have ensued if I had started the shooting. Instead my population was happy about it.

I didn't notice any obvious hit on my reputation with anyone other then my intended victim. My MPPs still worked anyway. It got the intended results and no one turned from annoyed to furious. Again except for the unfortunate Greeks.

I have done this twice with excellent results. Normally I don't plant spys unless I am allready at war. Results may vary with level though.

	07-03-2002 14:46									#10
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Mh I'll try that sometime... I play Deity.

	07-03-2002 22:17									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

Does your reputation suffer if you RE-negotiate a peace treaty and the other side refuses your demands?

	07-03-2002 22:45									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Herr David Does your reputation suffer if you RE-negotiate a peace treaty and the other side refuses your demands?

No, because you have already fulfilled the terms of your agreement (20 turns), and are negotiating an extension. It's not your fault they won't pay the reasonable price of 1000 per turn plus their first born city.

	08-03-2002 21:23									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

So I can start wars via the renegotiate option and everyone still loves me? (Apart from the nation I'm attacking, of course...) I mean, after all I'm the one who's distributing all the tech goodies in this world. And I also give away all these 1- or 2-size tundra/desert/jungle cities that the AIs are so fond of. But up to know that hasn't helped me much... they're still pissed at me