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jinif
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Davis, CA
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
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Top end score?!? Is the game over yet?
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Zouave
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Chinese obviously. Land mass is the most important consideration for score in civ 3.
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Rimpy
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Washington, DC
Dec 2001
time: 00:18
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This is a tough poll to answer because Civ3 doesn't model real world civilizations very well. One thing that Civ3 lacks is colonies breaking away from the colonizer. There are no events in Civ3 that parallels, for example, North America breaking away from England/France, or South America from Spain/Portugal.
However, I'm happy that Civ3 doesn't model these real world events, as that would make for some pretty sucky games. Imagine city flipping and multiple the frustration by ten. Can you imagine if you were playing on a real world map, and you occupied the British Isles and North America, and then North America revolted and formed a new Civ that was no longer under your control? That wouldn't be very fun, although it'd be realistic.
Anyway, as far as the poll, if we're only talking about single countries and not factoring in colonies, then China would probably top the list due to its land area and longevity. On the other hand, if you includ colonies and former vassals as part of the parent Civ, then I don't think that China would top the list.
If you include colonies as part of the parent Civ, the top two would be England and Spain. And you could argue that England and Spain are descendants of the Roman civilization, meaning that Rome is the undisputed champion of Civs. No other Civ comes close as far as cultural, scientific, and political impact on the history of the world.
Rimpy
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Dida
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culture in civ3 is too much depended on age. So, a city that is only 1000 years old can never compare to a city 4000 years old culturally. British culture is very young compare to Chinese, so China would have much higher cultural rating, probably the highest. For military might, it is not an important factor in Civ3. Land mass matters though, so, pre-WWI UK would be very high on the list, not sure if it will top the list though.
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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:18
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it depends, the Iriquois, representing all of the native american tribes, held control over the north american continent for some 37 thousand years, and since territory, and score averaged by turns are important, they would have won, but their civilization is more or less defunct in civ3 terms.
The US built the UN, but its kinda worthless, what with all the pop ups every turn voting for a secretary general, Culture of course is averaged by turn, so no one will ever win this way.
We could of course Launch to AC, but that will take atleast several more turns of fighting against the tech cap to discover how to build the ship, and 2050 retirement could come first.
Military conquest may also be valid, but only if they had included an allied victory option from smax, seeing as how there is not an allied victory option, we can not count on our European allies to Push our territory average up to 66%, but then again it is averaged by turns, so that probably wont be possible.
Seems no one will win, atleast until 2050
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Ironikinit
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I can't believe Whoha is the only one who pointed out that the US built the UN wonder, and thus won the game.
China = second ran.
USA a winner is you!
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Ninot
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Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:18
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I voted Romans, perhaps cuz of ignorance in the direction of the Chinese, but this is how i explain myself...
Romans win, by cultural victory, by the year... oh, lets say 500 AD
Here's my explanation
All western life can reflect back to Roman culture. From its roughly 1000 years of life (2000 if ya count Byzantine empire), it has truly been rememberd throughout the ages.
It has been a civilization immortilized by its structures (Colliseum, Hadrians Tomb, the Aqueducts, whole lot of other structures, and the architectural types it has left (columns, domes, arches, whatever). It has been immortilized by Shakespeare as well.. a man from England, a 1000 years after the fall of Rome. And, you can still go to a bookstore and hope to find one of numerous books written by Julius Caesar.
Now, sure, China has been around just as long and survived to tell its story, but its culture can't be said to have affected as many OTHER nations as the culture of Rome has.
And, well, Egypt left around the Pyramids and such, but can it be truly said that their culture has stood the test of time? nahhhh
I dunno, call me Caligula, but Roman culture just seems so overpowering, i can't see this any other way. I probly have some more points, but ive lost them from typing.
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Dida
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Nah, roman cultural achievement are insignificant compare to China. Or even Japan or India. Modern nations such as Germany and England does not trace their roots back to Roman. They are from different tribe of people.
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nato
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West Unite
Aug 2001
time: 00:18
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Cool thread idea Miznia.
In real life terms, I can only narrow it down to four picks:
1. China
2. Rome
3. Britain
4. USA
China: Has probably been the world leader for most of human history. In a way the past 500 years are just an aberration from thousands of years of Chinese pre-eminance. However, although China has long periods of brilliance, they are all mixed with long periods of chaos and destruction. In Civ3 terms, destroying all their cultural buildings during the Cultural Revolution had to hurt.
Rome: Creating a long period of peace is what its all about! Fantastic legal innovations. Also, Rome was non-racist - anyone could become a Roman.
Britain: Birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, the second biggest thing to happen to humanity. For a hundred years or so Britain was a unique kind of power, with no other like it. Huge navy, territory all over the globe, informal control of most of the non-Western world, and financial masters.
USA: For a short period was producing about as much as the rest of the world combined. The US navy controls the oceans in a way even the British didn't. The only big power left ... for a while. Also, American popular culture is all conquering! Or at least it was...
In normal terms it is hard to decide.
In Civ3 terms it is easy, China all the way. They were game leaders for way too long ... Roman, British, and American periods of dominance are pretty short in comparison. In order I would put them (in Civ3 terms):
1. China
2. Britain
3. Rome
4. USA
Just how I see it of course.
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Ninot
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Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:18
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quote:
Nah, roman cultural achievement are insignificant compare to China. Or even Japan or India. Modern nations such as Germany and England does not trace their roots back to Roman. They are from different tribe of people. |
Well, just, firstly... to knock out the Chinese, they were completely overun by the Mongols in the 13th century, and the Mongols did not adopt Chinese culture (other than Kublai' Khan's lust for religion). Now, take that as China losing due to conquest, or just evidence that Chinese culture isn't what you claim it to be.
And, no offence, but i have no clue what to make of your argument. A cultural victory doesnt mean that civ is the father of all civs to come after it. It just means, as the game says, the civ will be rememberd and revered for the rest of time. Score one for Rome. (now really, would China be rememberd, if it weren't around?)
Now, the Barbaric Germans only truly became culturful after overrunning the Romans. Germans became Christians, as only the Romans were before them (hey, Nero may have persecutted Christians early on, but by the end, Rome was Christian all the way). Theres a lot of info on this (Roman culture among early germans) but i only had time to research China tonight....
And, as for England, well, first off, good ole Brittania, for the exception of the welsch and such, was a Roman colony. Roman ruins can still be found in London. And, as i stated before, as cultural victory means "to be remembered and revered", Shakespeare wrote of the Romans, and he is, dare i say, the biggest cultural influence the English have ever had? (he DOES have a civ3 great wonder named after him......)
As for nations like Japan, India, or China, they do have some great culture going for them, no doubt about it. But serious Chinese influences, like Confucious, is no older than the Republic or Rome. India has hindu culture going for it, but once again, Hinduism hasn't spread very far from India's borders. And, well, Japan's history doesnt truly predate Roman history, and there are serious arguments from the Koreans, and then possibly from the Chinese, that Japan is just an extension of their own asian culture.
Just to throw something in... the Sanitation tech in Rome? Well, it WAS the only city known to have a population of more than a million people consistently, up untill the industrial age hit Europe and America.
Anyways, my bottom line argument for tonight is that, while India, Japan, China, whoever, they all have their nice cultures, but they hardly leave their borders. They're not exactly winning any cultural battles. Rome, on the other hand, could be said to have had an influence on all Christian populated nations, and then some. Just looking at our modern world, Rome can be seen to have influenced the United States, to the Middle East, and just about all in between.
Oh, and if anyone's gonna give me a beef on the Christian bit, just look at it this way. Up untill Lutheranism (an maybe some more, not sure....) Church service was delivered in LATIN... the language of the ROMANS.
Yours, most peacefully
Ninot
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Skanky Burns
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Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:18
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If based on highest score, the winner would easily and quite convincingly be China.
Score in Civ 3 is based mainly on control of land, and culture.
China is one of, if not the oldest culture in the world, so cultural score would be high. They also control a very large area of land, and have for thousands of years.
While America has a large area of land, its only had that land for 400 years, give or take. Before that, nothing.
Romans had a large empire for a while. But they didn't hold onto large areas of land for as long as China has.
Same again with English.
The only other possible contender would be Russia, who have a large area of land, and have held it for quite some time. But I don't think it would be enough to beat China.
If you based it on who won the game, however, valid arguements could be made for many, many different countries, for many different victory types.
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05-03-2002 02:12
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