06-03-2002 00:42									#1
	Europe firmly commited to Kyoto protocols. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Europe adopts Kyoto

quote: The Council of European Union environment ministers today adopted the European Commission's proposal to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, an international agreement to curb the emission of greenhouse gases linked to global warming. .... Together with the 15 EU Member States, the European Community's instrument of ratification will now be deposited with the United Nations by June 1, so as to enable the entry into force of the Protocol by the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg this September ..... Wallstrom says she has received confirmation by the EU candidate countries that they are on track to ratify the protocol. Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Turkey are seeking to join the European Union, but they must meet EU environmental standards before their accession is complete. .... The EU has legally bound itself today to actually reduce its emissions,"

The American question of "Why hasn't Europe ratified?" is now answered.

	06-03-2002 00:45									#2
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The EU isn't Europe.

BTW, what about Russia and Japan? Have they approved the treaty yet?

	06-03-2002 00:51									#3
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The EU isn't Europe.

Not yet.

quote: BTW, what about Russia and Japan? Have they approved the treaty yet?

I think Japan is commited but still seeking minor concessions, and Russia is asking for help if it is to succeed.

	06-03-2002 00:57									#4
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HAHA! they suckered you into signing yet another treaty

	06-03-2002 01:43									#5
	Re: Europe firmly commited to Kyoto protocols. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

...you fools

	06-03-2002 01:54									#6
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Now we just have the US, stubbornly refusing to sign the Kyoto Treaty, continuing to drive around in unnecessarily polluting cars, putting out more CO2 than any other nation, refusing to make even the slightest concession in their 'standard of living'. And yet you right-wing twits don't even think to question the rhetoric you are fed by your government. You consider yourselves to be the 'anti big-government' lot, but you seem to cowtow more than anyone else I have seen. Question, inquire. Nations are signing it for a reason.

I think it is time that the US acted like they are a part of human society and dropped this bullsh*t

	06-03-2002 01:55									#7
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We're idiots.

	06-03-2002 01:56									#8
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Speak for yourself

Would you like to elaborate Stew?

	06-03-2002 01:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Speak for yourself Would you like to elaborate Stew?

We are incurring voluntary costs for no discernible reason while our major "competitor" remains rational and does not.

	06-03-2002 02:55									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's We are incurring voluntary costs for no discernible reason while our major "competitor" remains rational and does not.

Bugger issues like that, we have the potential of a major environmental catastrophe. It is their inaction, and sanctions should be imposed against them because of it.

	06-03-2002 02:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Now we just have the US, stubbornly refusing to sign the Kyoto Treaty, continuing to drive around in unnecessarily polluting cars, putting out more CO2 than any other nation, refusing to make even the slightest concession in their 'standard of living'. And yet you right-wing twits don't even think to question the rhetoric you are fed by your government. You consider yourselves to be the 'anti big-government' lot, but you seem to cowtow more than anyone else I have seen. Question, inquire. Nations are signing it for a reason. I think it is time that the US acted like they are a part of human society and dropped this bullsh*t

Boo hoo Boo hoo, we don't agree with your methodology so all you can do is insult us. Grow up.

In the last twenty years, the lake and rivers where I live have gotten cleaner, the air is cleaner. I'm sure this didn't happened because we didn't do anything. Things are being done. You may not agree on all the methods, but we must be doing something right. These things have had a quantitative impact. WE CAN SEE, TASTE, and SMELL the difference. We will continue to work in that direction. Just because we don't agree on the methods, doesn't make us wrong.

RAH

	06-03-2002 02:59									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Bugger issues like that, we have the potential of a major environmental catastrophe. It is their inaction, and sanctions should be imposed against them because of it.

Any sanctions imposed on the US will face retaliation...

Kyoto is extremely flawed.

	06-03-2002 03:02									#13
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quote: WE CAN SEE, TASTE, and SMELL the difference.

You can't see, taste or smell any of the major greenhouse pollutants.

What the US does with local environment is their business, globally impacting pollution is everybody's.

	06-03-2002 03:02									#14
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quote: Originally posted by rah Boo hoo Boo hoo, we don't agree with your methodology so all you can do is insult us. Grow up. In the last twenty years, the lake and rivers where I live have gotten cleaner, the air is cleaner. I'm sure this didn't happened because we didn't do anything. Things are being done. You may not agree on all the methods, but we must be doing something right. These things have had a quantitative impact. WE CAN SEE, TASTE, and SMELL the difference. We will continue to work in that direction. Just because we don't agree on the methods, doesn't make us wrong. RAH

Exactly, the major problem you cannot see, taste and smell. For example, if there is a nuclear reactor meltdown. You can neither see, taste nor smell plutonium

Retaliation? Of course, that's why it has to be a concerted effort.

	06-03-2002 03:02									#15
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quote: Originally posted by rah In the last twenty years, the lake and rivers where I live have gotten cleaner, the air is cleaner. I'm sure this didn't happened because we didn't do anything. Things are being done. You may not agree on all the methods, but we must be doing something right. These things have had a quantitative impact. WE CAN SEE, TASTE, and SMELL the difference. We will continue to work in that direction. Just because we don't agree on the methods, doesn't make us wrong.

Its so bad you lost your sense of smell, taste and sight?

	06-03-2002 03:04									#16
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Triple cross post

	06-03-2002 03:06									#17
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Americans understand one thing : BOMBS. We get our act together and we go bomb them

	06-03-2002 03:08									#18
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We'd spend €5 billion and 5 years designing no-pollution bombs though.

	06-03-2002 03:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Exactly, the major problem you cannot see, taste and smell. For example, if there is a nuclear reactor meltdown. You can neither see, taste nor smell plutonium Retaliation? Of course, that's why it has to be a concerted effort.

No-one else would join in.

Why should the US sign a flawed treaty?

	06-03-2002 03:10									#20
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What is so flawed about it? It seems like a good first step, hopefully the first of many.

	06-03-2002 03:11									#21
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Will this bogus and arbitrary treaty really make a difference besides increasing unemployment and lowing industrial output?

	06-03-2002 03:12									#22
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So Bod's, what is your suggestion?

Follow the US plan of sticking our heads in the sand? Or do you agree something has to be done, and its a matter of how?

	06-03-2002 03:14									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison What is so flawed about it? It seems like a good first step, hopefully the first of many.

If we WERE causing global awrming, I'd agree.

	06-03-2002 03:14									#24
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Stupid government forcing this damn thing down our throats without thinking it out.

So has the developing worlds signed up on this thing? I would think that they would be more of a problem using, old, and inefficent production methods.

	06-03-2002 03:16									#25
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Gee, I was hoping for rational discussion, but again just more insults.

Kyoto is based on some speculation. I'm not even going to argue the specific points. But everything hasn't been proved. Even you guys have to admit to at least part of that.

For those that say our local air and water standards are just local, you're deluding yourselves. There improvement is measurable and quite scientific. The impact goes well beyond our borders. At least these improvements are PROVEN to help. And the impact on our economy hasn't been devestating, (even though it was originally argued that the changes that were made would be)

RAH

But yes, I agree that more needs to be done. But it would be nice that if it's going to cause hardship, that it's actually going to help. A little caution is in order.

	06-03-2002 03:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Exactly, the major problem you cannot see, taste and smell. For example, if there is a nuclear reactor meltdown. You can neither see, taste nor smell plutonium Retaliation? Of course, that's why it has to be a concerted effort.

I'm sure that when your genitals shrivel up and your hair starts falling out while you're sitting in the dark without electricity you'll begin so suspect something.

	06-03-2002 03:20									#27
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Your post very nearly contradicts your signature rah.

To be honest, I don't care how the US cleans itslef up, so long as it does, and shows that it is, so that we know that you not being in Kyoto doesn't matter.

	06-03-2002 03:21									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's If we WERE causing global awrming, I'd agree.

It's an issue of a very real danger, there is a considerable amount of evidence pointing towards global warming occuring, as well as against it. But do you wish to take that risk when we can err on the side of caution? Lets face it, it is unnecessary to burn the amount of fuel we burn...look at the sizes of some cars people burn when a much smaller car would suffice, little cutbacks like this, giving an incentive to be cleaner with emissions and a disincentive to pollute irresponsibly.

	06-03-2002 03:23									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison It's an issue of a very real danger, there is a considerable amount of evidence pointing towards global warming occuring, as well as against it. But do you wish to take that risk when we can err on the side of caution? Lets face it, it is unnecessary to burn the amount of fuel we burn...look at the sizes of some cars people burn when a much smaller car would suffice, little cutbacks like this, giving an incentive to be cleaner with emissions and a disincentive to pollute irresponsibly.

These little cut-backs would of cost thousands and thousands of jobs. It would also take money out of the economy, which is arbitrary. Rather the private sector should have benefits when investing in new technology, rather than take this money away and put it in big government.

Do you really look at anything else rather than your narrow view point?

	06-03-2002 03:27									#30
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quote: Originally posted by rah For those that say our local air and water standards are just local, you're deluding yourselves.

There are many kinds of pollutants, some only impact the local environment, others impact the global enviroment. How is that a delusional statement?