06-03-2002 03:36									#1
	The Civ that would not Die. A Bug report in 2 paragraphs. Increase the size of your Attachments

After a quick search (bug post) did not see this.

I am playing a huge map with 16 civs and neighbor Persia declares war with me in early B.C. I get the whole contenient to go to bat for me, and between them and myself, he is wiped out before the A.D. change.

It is now around 1600 A.D., and Persia still shows up on the foreign advisor screen! not only that, but Russia is still at war with them, and just asked me to sign a mil. agreement with her to fight the evil persia! There is no Perisa to fight!

	06-03-2002 03:59									#2
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That is known, and sadly is not a bug. They intentially put that in there, gets annoying doesn't it. Yeah i wiped out two civs early on, one was basically gone from play cuz i elimenated him late BC the other remerged below me and caused some trouble for a considerable chunk of the game, envitable causing me to lose as i was to far behind the other nations to catch up. Very annoying in my eyes

	06-03-2002 04:04									#3
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So your saying the dead civ rose from the ashes?

There is no more room for anyone to pop up. The russians killed persia off, taking the capitol and all.... This stinks, I can't see a reason for keeping them around.

	06-03-2002 04:20									#4
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This has always been a feature in Civilization. If an empire is destroyed very early in the game, it will resurface somewhere else on the map. At some point in time, I'm not sure when, this will no longer happen. And it will only happen once to each civ. The second time it's destroyed, it's gone forever.

	06-03-2002 04:29									#5
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What are you talking about Willem. I don't remeber that ever occuring unless you checked the box in customize rules that said "don't restart civilizations", or somethinglike that , in Civ2. The only game i can remeber this being in is Civ3 and its totally annoying, espiceally if your strategy is military

	06-03-2002 04:31									#6
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Sadly, it seems to have happened to me twice in my current game with the same nation. I, as the Romans, hacked for centuries to destroy the Russians, only to have them reappear on a small island the next turn. Upon loading my caravels and destroying them again, they re-emerged on their original continent in a small square near the north pole. I'm attempting to battle through the French to get to them again, and hopefully they'll simply die this time. THey refuse to see my envoy and only my 4 luxuries are preventing war-weariness from destroying my Republic.

SMAC had a sort of "Do or Die" option, didn't it? You could select the option to not restart defeated civs, regardless of how early it was, I believe.

	06-03-2002 04:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Mars What are you talking about Willem. I don't remeber that ever occuring unless you checked the box in customize rules that said "don't restart civilizations", or somethinglike that , in Civ2. The only game i can remeber this being in is Civ3 and its totally annoying, espiceally if your strategy is military

It was also in Civ 1 and in SMAC. It's always been a part of the game.

	06-03-2002 05:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Mars What are you talking about Willem. I don't remeber that ever occuring unless you checked the box in customize rules that said "don't restart civilizations", or somethinglike that , in Civ2. The only game i can remeber this being in is Civ3 and its totally annoying, espiceally if your strategy is military

Willem is right. It was definitely in civ 2. If you checked "don't restart civilizations", then it would turn this off. It was always on by default. Have a look again if you're still uncertain.

I'm not entirely sure of the reason why it's there, but the only thing I can think of is to force you to conquer the "whole world" (since they repop in a far corner) instead of just your local surroundings (if you're lucky you could get them all on the same continent and wipe everyone out really early without even exploring 50% of the map - so this prevents that. Or it's supposed to, I think...)

	06-03-2002 06:35									#9
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No its not part of the game, its an option in the game. The standard game in SMAC and civ2 were where the civ wouldn't restart. Now they not only made it standard for them to restart but won't let you stop them from restarting other than by conquering them at least twice.

	06-03-2002 06:48									#10
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No, if I remember right, the standard game in SMAC and civ2 had this option turned on, though you could disable it. It would be nice to have the same option in civ3...

	06-03-2002 07:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 No, if I remember right, the standard game in SMAC and civ2 had this option turned on, though you could disable it. It would be nice to have the same option in civ3...

Yes, you do remember right, the default was on. Personally I like that feature. I don't really care for games where it ends up being only 2 or 3 civs. That would happen much more often if this wasn't in place.

	06-03-2002 07:31									#12
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wait. Yall (I am from the south) are missing my point. Persia has not popped back up (I do remember that from civ2), they do not exist. There is no persia on the map. Anywhere. They do not have a city. Yet they still exist in the floating head sense, and Russia is still at war with them. And they have been off the map for more than 1000 years.

Like in real life, if France all of the sudden requested England come help fight the Romans. They dont exist as-is anymore. The land is now split by other nations, and while there might be some kook claiming to be a decendant of Ceaser himself, and ruler of what was Rome, would anyone listen? heck no....anyway, I am now rambling, so time to stop typing.

	06-03-2002 07:34									#13
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You may want to check the Oceans for a galley or something. The comp likes to set up little government in exiles on boats that can last forever. That galley likely has a settler on it. The comp stays in the game if it has one city or even one settler roaming about.

	06-03-2002 08:43									#14
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I remember an apolyton tournament game where the Americans never founded a city and never seemed to exist at all, yet I could still talk to them for the entire game...

	06-03-2002 10:12									#15
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quote: Originally posted by N. Machiavelli You may want to check the Oceans for a galley or something. The comp likes to set up little government in exiles on boats that can last forever. That galley likely has a settler on it. The comp stays in the game if it has one city or even one settler roaming about.

Yep, exactly. Often times, to avoid this very thing, I'll save the game before the final city is destroyed, and edit the settler so that it can no longer found cities. This prevents the civ. from staying around after they are dead...

Of course, after the civ. is destoryed, I will re-edit...

	06-03-2002 12:21									#16
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quote: Originally posted by N. Machiavelli You may want to check the Oceans for a galley or something. The comp likes to set up little government in exiles on boats that can last forever. That galley likely has a settler on it. The comp stays in the game if it has one city or even one settler roaming about.

BTW be careful about destroying the galley (or whatever), as killing the last settler on a boat tends to crash the game. Last time this happened to me I 'solved' the problem when Kyoto flipped back to the japanese settler on the boat. I sank the boat and retook Kyoto.

Robert