09-01-2001 05:06									#1
	Let the nitpicking begin! (and rambling) Tired of ads?

Having visited the Firaxis CIV3, i feel compelled to begin commenting.
First off, I doubt this will affect the game in any signifcant fashion: Why do they have a F-15 and a MIG-29? The MIG-29 shares much in common with the F-15. I can give a short history, but i'll be simple. They're both fighters from the same general era, and have the same general preformance and function. (1970's-80's, Mach 2+, Air Superiority) It doesn't make much sense. Are these two seperate units? Or two different animations for the same unit used to give civilizations some visual difference? (Supersonic Fighter Aircraft Unit, or something along those lines)

I nearly forgot about the nitpicking part. Does anyone else think the Abhrams tank doesn't look angular enough and the F15 to stubby?

Its late for suggestions, but I think they'd be better off using general names rather than Panzer, F15, MIG29,or Abhrams.

	09-01-2001 09:10									#2
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O.K. plenty of talk that the MiG-29 and the F-15 are the same plane. I looked for some information. Here is what I found from Britannica.com:

quote: The MiG-29, first operational in 1985, is a single-seat, twin-engine air-to-air fighter that can also be used for ground attack.

F-15

quote: also called EAGLE, twin-engine jet fighter produced by the McDonnell Douglas Corporation of the United States. Based on a design proposed in 1969 for an air-superiority fighter, it has also been built in fighter-bomber versions. F-15s were delivered to the U.S. Air Force between 1974 and 1994; they have also been sold to U.S. allies in the Middle East and have been assembled under contract in Japan. The F-15 has a wingspan of 42 feet 9.75 inches (13.05 m) and a length of 63 feet 9 inches (19.43 m). It is powered by two Pratt & Whitney or General Electric turbofan engines, which with afterburning can generate from 23,000 to 29,000 pounds of thrust, accelerating the aircraft to more than twice the speed of sound. The single-seat air-superiority version is armed with a 20-millimetre rotary cannon and an array of short-range and medium-range air-to-air missiles. In the fighter-bomber version, known as the Strike Eagle, a weapons officer seated behind the pilot controls the delivery of a number of guided missiles and bombs. The Strike Eagle carried out much of the nighttime precision bombing of Iraqi installations during the Persian Gulf War of 1990-91.

It would appear then that the F-15 is 25 years older than the MiG-29. This does not seem like much when in the early game turns are 50 years apart but by the 20th Century turns= a year. So, Firaxis should not worry about giving us a WW II plane, a F-15, and then a MiG-29. Of course they would also throw a couple of bombers in.

	09-01-2001 09:50									#3
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I dunno, the Mig and F-15 much like the Abrams and Panzer seem excessive to me. In my opinion, since the game is new everytime, we shouldn't push for EXACT military models. We should only have very general unit concepts instead. Like a Tank, a Jet, a Bomber, etc. No need for such specifics. And like I've said before for the finnicky, the game should be customizable enough that you can create your own extra units if you really CAN'T live without two separate jet fighters.

	09-01-2001 23:51									#4
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I tend to agree with dom pedro.

It seems exessive. The tanks and jets are too different to have it as the same unit for different civs, and having different unit every 50 turns is annoying.

But I'm ranting enough in my thread so I'll let firaxis show me how does their game make it all work great.

	11-01-2001 03:53									#5
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Despite the fact that both the Mig29 and the F15 could in some versions be classified as Strike aircraft, a closer look at the unit graphics reveals their intended role in the game. The Mig29 is carrying Air to Air Missiles wheras the F15 is carrying mostly Air to Ground Munitions. Thus I suggest we have simply a Jet Fighter Unit and a Jet Fighter/Bomber Unit.

I say "Jet" as I expect there to be a Standard Propellar Fighter Unit and a Prop Fighter/Bomber(P-51,Me-410). It can be expected that a dedicated Bomber Unit would appear in these 2 classifications also, say a Lancaster and a B-52. Plus we also have the Stealth Planes which will feature later in the game.

I hope perhaps Dive Bombers will feature in the final game, but I fear that these will be left out to avoid over complicating the game.