06-03-2002 10:05									#1
	PR: RON Coverage Announced Got spare money?

The following is for immediate release:

<FONT COLOR="#80000"><B>Apolyton Civilization Site</B> ( <A HREF=/forums/"http:/apolyton.net" TARGET="_new">http://apolyton.net</A> ) [ACS], one the premiere online fansites for the <I>Civilization</I> computer strategy gaming series and its extended family, is today announcing another addition to its already impressive lineup of coverage. <I>Rise of Nations</I>, the premiere title of gaming developer <A HREF=/forums/"http:/www.bighugegames.com" TARGET="_new">Big Huge Games</A> (BHG) and publisher <A HREF=/forums/"http:/www.microsoft.com/games" TARGET="_new">Microsoft Games</A> (MG), has been added to ACS' "Current Titles" listing. Earlier this month, ACS re-launched its BHG forum -- which had been the said company's official forum to that point -- <A HREF=/forums/"/forums/forumdisplay__forumid=113"_.html TARGET="_new">to be solely dedicated</A> to <I>RoN</I>. While a full dedicated section for the game is some months down the road, the said form and news items for the game currently housed <A HREF=/forums/"/misc" TARGET="_new">in the 'Miscellaneous' section</A> of the site are already open and flourishing.

"We are excited about the addition of <I>Rise of Nations</I> to the Apolyton gaming line-up", said Daniel Quick, ACS' Co-Owner/Administrator, when reached for comment. "While it has been a little less than a week since the game's existence became public knowledge, discussion is building and anticipation in the title is mounting. To the best of our knowledge, we are the first fansite -- pre-existing or not -- to confirm its intention to cover <I>RoN</I> in full. There is no question that we will not be the last in pledging this dedication, but we are going to strive to be the best by adhering to the strictest code of comprehensive, professional and dediciated operation that we have faithfully followed since this site's inception".

ACS covers <I>Civilization</I> through <I>Civilization III</I>, <I>Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri</I>, the <I>Call To Power</I> series, <I>Master of Orion III</I>, numerous so-called "<I>Alternative Civs</I>" and now <I>Rise of Nations</I>.</FONT>

	06-03-2002 11:58									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

So why doesn't EU (and EU 2) which are more civ than Moo3 or RoN not get a site on Apolyton? A travesty!

	06-03-2002 12:05									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Nooooo!!!!!! Absolutely not! Having a forum about the game is aceptable and quite frankly good for the site but I fail to see why having a RON site is consistent with the intentions of the site given the fact that we didn't have a site dedicated to either Simgolf or EU. Bad move admins!

	06-03-2002 16:11									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Au contraire DD, IMO itīs a good move to re-launch the RoN forum and SimGolf has really no buisness being here. EU/EU2 is another matter (have I mentioned itīs swedish? Go Sweden! ) I would like to see a EU forum, but itīs not my site so I donīt call the shots

	06-03-2002 16:16									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Imran, from what Iīve read RoN is as much Civ as EU, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with dissing RoN. It canīt be that bad, can it?

	06-03-2002 21:32									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with DinoDoc, what makes RoN more special than EU, or even SimGolf, that there has to be a site dedicated to it?

Or are you kissing Brian Reynolds' arse?

	07-03-2002 00:39									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Rise of Nations is about the rise of civilization over a long period of time and features the basic elements of civilization games. MOO does the same thing. Sim Golf is about the rise of one golf course over a few decades. EU, though good, doesn't span a long period of time and doesn't focus as much on building of infastructure.

	07-03-2002 01:30									#8
	Zopperoni appears to be on to something. Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Rise of Nations is about the rise of civilization over a long period of time and features the basic elements of civilization games.

As does Empire Earth and so far the only basic element of a civ game RON has is the fact that it is being developed by Brian Renyolds.

	07-03-2002 02:00									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I knew from previous discussions that there was going to be some concern stemming from this announcement, but I was not expecting so many negative voices and to have them be so strong.

Apocalypse has summarized the basic points behind why <I>RoN</I> has been chosen, as well as why <I>SimGolf</I> and <I>Europa Universalis</I> have not. To re-iterate, the former is a golfing simulation -- albeit more than your "conventional" one, but it does not fall anywhere near under the <I>Civilization</I>esque scope while the latter (again, as already stated) is too focused on a particular period of time and does give terribly much focus to building/infrastructure. Putting that to the side for the moment, the original <I>EU</I> is a tad old to consider adding a section to the site now. On this front, I am curious why there hasn't been any 'call to arms' over <I>EU II</I> coverage, as opposed to its predecessor, but again it too is not broad enough in scope.

In closing, I can see why some would ask on the heels of this announcement about why we have no <I>EU</I> or again <I>EU II</I> coverage coverage, but I hope I have adequately addressed that issue. However, I am still surprised by the calls for a <I>SG</I> section even when taking into account the game's parameters and a confirmation I made earlier this year that Apolyton would <B>not</B> be covering it for those very reasons. As for the stark criticisms about <I>RoN</I> itself, everyone is welcome to their opinion, including <U>constructive</U> criticisms, but at the same I encourage you not to condemn it so quickly and completely.

----------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

	07-03-2002 02:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Rise of Nations is about the rise of civilization over a long period of time

*cough* Empire Earth.


Oh, and seeing as how Apolyton is acting contrary to what I percieved as what the goals of the site where, you can find a new news editor, or just leave Snapcase as the sole one. I resign.

	07-03-2002 06:10									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X I would like to see a EU forum, but itīs not my site so I donīt call the shots

Er... there is a Europa Universalis forum.

	07-03-2002 06:18									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Again, let us look at the core elements of civilization type empire building games.

The key features of SMAC applied to RON:
1. Explore - The maps in RON play a larger part in the game than any previous RTS of its type. The importance is because of the more heavy reliance on types of resources and having strategic positions on the map. No longer are you just building bases for churning out units, but you are building centers on commerce for your empire.

2. Discover - Technologies are playing a large part in the game. If you do not advance, you will fail. From the looks of it though, it does appear that there is an outside chance than a few spearmen-type units can defeat a tank, which has become such an ingrained part of the civilization subgenre.

3. Build - Many types of structures can be build, and a significant portion of these are non military. You do not just build a war machine like the goal was in past RTSs, you must build up an infastructure to continue to progress through the game. There are peaceful victory options and to accomplish this, having a powerful economy is important.

4. Conquer - You've seen the great looking screenshots. The battles are looking realistic, not just jumbles of units. You can make rushes impossible to pull off, making forethough required when attacking the city. Resources must also be spent to start wars, thus one cannot just go ramaging through the map. Terrain is also a large factor.


Now I will tell you why Empire Earth cannot be considered on the same level of RON.

First, resources. In EE, you must do the traditional clickfest RTS method. RON has streamlined this. Trading resources is also not an option in EE. If you are missing a crucial resource, you may be screwed. RON, like Civ3, allows you to trade these resources.

Next, structures. In EE, many structures look the same throughout the game. With RON, structures progress in appearance.

Moving on, battles. EE has nothing on RON in battles. Morale comes into play in EE, but that is about it. Look at the screenshots, which looks more appealing, even forgetting the nice RON graphics?

Always a favorite, customization. We don't know that much about RON, but by the looks of it, many things can be editted. This was the reason Civ2 lasted so long and why many people were upset over Civ3.

Finally, winning. With EE, conquest is your only option, making it just another RTS when you get right down to the basics. Once again, RON allows you to make combat anywhere from nonexistant to the focal point.

Just for Imran, a parallel to CTP. RON is to EE and SMAC is to CTP. CTP was going to have a cow (something we made fun of on more than one occasion), EE has giraffes and hippos. EE went a little overboard on going into the future. Giant robots, though very cool, do not fit in well. Mecha are too heavily to function well on Earth. RON stays reasonable.

	07-03-2002 10:57									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

... Which means RoN is on the same level (type of game) as EE. Thanks for making my point for me.

And, btw, EE has the 4 components as well... almost every RTS does after Starcraft.

	08-03-2002 01:12									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

How did I prove your point? EE doesn't fulfill all of those anyway, same with other RTSs.

	08-03-2002 01:58									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Bah! RoN will *maybe* be a cool game, but clearly EU2 abides by the spirit of the genre *at least* as much as a great many other games represented here, and it has a teeeeeny, barely visible forum (not even an official EU2 forum, just a generic EU one).

-=Vel=-

	08-03-2002 02:01									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Er... there is a Europa Universalis forum.

Eehh, yes..so there is... I donīt really know what I meant there.

	08-03-2002 03:02									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DanQ Apocalypse has summarized the basic points behind why <I>RoN</I> has been chosen, as well as why <I>SimGolf</I> and <I>Europa Universalis</I> have not. To re-iterate, the former is a golfing simulation -- albeit more than your "conventional" one, but it does not fall anywhere near under the <I>Civilization</I>esque scope while the latter (again, as already stated) is too focused on a particular period of time and does give terribly much focus to building/infrastructure.

EU and EU2 give LESS focus to building of infrastructure than the Civ series (and BTW, MORE focus to diplomacy, war, religion etc.). You can check this by either actually playing these games or by carefully looking at Apocalypse's first post.

RoN may be a great game that deserves Apolyton coverage. EU2 IS such a game.

	08-03-2002 03:37									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

BTW, 'more focus to war' doesn't mean that going out for conquest is the surest way to win - this is rather true for Civ3, sadly. Instead, it means supply lines, sieges and leaders that actually work.