06-03-2002 10:38									#1
	Small wonders Got spare money?

Civ 3 has a new concept, that of small wonders, which all civs can build one of. I do not know if this can be imitated via slic, but if we can come up with some good ideas, I bet our guys here would give it their best shot.
So, what can you come up with?

	06-03-2002 11:25									#2
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Probably the easiest way to do this is Really expensive buildings with awesome benefits.

	06-03-2002 13:29									#3
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Well at least we could have historically accurate wonders (FE pyramids in egypt)

	06-03-2002 15:07									#4
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When you kill a wonder in slic can it be still made

If so we could put some code in so that the wonder appears in your city and a turn later disappears but it’s legacy continues on your city throw slic

	06-03-2002 16:12									#5
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Its not very difficult I shouldn't think.
Just a mod_ function to scan for whether a building has been built or not, and some sort of check to determine whether it has ever been built.
I'll take a look later if Wouter doesn't beat me to it.

	06-03-2002 17:31									#6
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Wow I did not know you could have animated avatars

	06-03-2002 22:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dale Probably the easiest way to do this is Really expensive buildings with awesome benefits.

Well, the trick is to make those benefits "empire wide" rather than city-specific. I really like the Small Wonders in Civ3 (especially because it doesn't matter if the freaking AI beats me to it by 2 turns, AGAIN).

	06-03-2002 23:59									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard Well, the trick is to make those benefits "empire wide" rather than city-specific. I really like the Small Wonders in Civ3 (especially because it doesn't matter if the freaking AI beats me to it by 2 turns, AGAIN).

Indeed. To have more that one civ build it, it has to be a building. Limiting it to one per civ is simple, however there is then the problem of making it empire-wide.

There are two ways of doing this.
1) Make the wonders have effect entirely via SLIC. This cuts out a few flags, but still gives a good range of possible effects.
2) Make the wonders create a building in each of the player's cities, and then automatically in each new city founded or captured.

Or, the two in combination. I have written out the basic structure, but I need to know what possible small wonders will be added so that we can decide the best way to proceed.

	07-03-2002 01:30									#9
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There are some great ideas here . . .

	07-03-2002 15:21									#10
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Well I thought about little research projects like giving you a unit bit like the Eden project of ctp2

	07-03-2002 15:32									#11
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What are the small wonders in Civ3? They'd be a good starting place...

	07-03-2002 15:38									#12
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From what I've gleaned from the fora...

Iron Works
Battlefield Medicine
Heroic Epic
Intelligence Agency
Pentagon
Forbidden Palace

No idea what they all do though

	07-03-2002 16:00									#13
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Well it looks like most of them improve your cities like the Intelligence Agency

Gives new units like iron working

Of improves your units like battle field medicine

That’s form what names I have seen could do all of them it only three types

	07-03-2002 19:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat From what I've gleaned from the fora... Iron Works Battlefield Medicine Heroic Epic Intelligence Agency Pentagon Forbidden Palace No idea what they all do though

Heroic Epic: increases likelihood of leaders appearing
Iron Works: doubles shield output in city
Forbidden Palace: lowers corruption as if it were a second capital
Military Academy: can build armies in city without a leader
Pentagon: armies can contain an extra unit
Wall Street: earn 5% interest on treasury each turn (maximum of 50)
Intelligence Agency: allows espionage missions
Apollo Program: allows spaceship construction
Strategic Missile Defense: 75% chance of intercepting ICBM attacks
Battlefield Medicine: military units can heal in enemy territory

	07-03-2002 21:05									#15
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Thanks P1

	07-03-2002 21:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Thanks P1

No problem!

Just to know, these wonders also have prequsites.

Like Iron Works need Coal & Iron in city radius.
Battlefield Medicine need 5 Hospitals Built, etc...

Triggers similar to Feasts in CTP2.

	07-03-2002 22:47									#17
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Yeah, I figured as much; I guess Wes has the final word on what the prereqs are effects will be.

	08-03-2002 07:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Yeah, I figured as much; I guess Wes has the final word on what the prereqs are effects will be.

No, it's not like that. I want this to be a community thing. People brainstorm, post their best ideas, the mod-makers take notes and use what they want (and what can be coded).
And don't just look to imitate civ 3, just use it as a starting point. I want us to flex our creative muscles here.

	08-03-2002 09:54									#19
	Ideas for small wonders...... Suffering from ads?

Here are some things I've thought would be pretty cool to implement into CTP2 which could fit into this idea:

1. For a Civ that is concentrating on happiness, there could be a special building only buildable in your capital called "Circus Maximus". This building could radiate happiness through your Civ. Basically, this building represents a massive investment in the government improving religion and entertainment. I see the pre-reqs to be a certain number of happiness buildings.

2. A militaristic Civ can build a project based on "The Theory of War" which was an early piece theorising the best way to wage conventional war (can't remember who wrote it). This could allow for military units having slightly higher attack/defense. The pre-reqs for this building could be the number of military victories.

3. Commercially minded Civs could concentrate on building "Wall Street" which represents the focal point of a nations stockmarket commerce. This could reap benefits where buildings are cheaper to build. Once again, the pre-reqs are based on the number of commerce buildings.

4. For the scientists among us, we can build the "Scientific Convention" which shares scientific ideas throughout the nation resulting in a slight science boost. Here the pre-reqs are based on science buildings in the Civ.

Any thoughts?

	08-03-2002 13:40									#20
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Your ideas seam to me to be limited to only one period in history if we do it like you say we would end up with some at the beginning and none at the end. We need to do one of two things.

One make them staggered so you get the commerce one latter in the game

Or

Make a lot more small wonders

	08-03-2002 19:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by WesW No, it's not like that. I want this to be a community thing. People brainstorm, post their best ideas, the mod-makers take notes and use what they want (and what can be coded).

Ok, I was still thinking MedMod...

I can see some of these becoming very similar to the feats of wonder system, are we going that way, or as buildings for the empire?

	09-03-2002 10:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Ok, I was still thinking MedMod... I can see some of these becoming very similar to the feats of wonder system, are we going that way, or as buildings for the empire?

I don't see a problem with having small wonders enabled by both advances and feats. If it is a small wonder, though, it should be something that requires construction. If it is an effect triggered by other accomplishments, then that would be a feat. I also think that the area of feats is something that has not been exploited as it could be, so if someone wants to start another thread about new feats I would welcome it.
I figured that the constraining factor would be the slic coding. I would suggest the slic guys try out both methods and see how they worked, so we would know what could be done first. Then we could get down to specific recommendations. After some specific recommendations have been made, the slic guys can see which wonder effects can actually be coded.

Also, do you think we should make a thread in the general forum alerting people there to this thread, since I am solicting ideas from the general populace? When I strated this thread, I did know which forum it best belonged in.

	09-03-2002 17:04									#23
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quote: Originally posted by WesW Also, do you think we should make a thread in the general forum alerting people there to this thread, since I am solicting ideas from the general populace? When I strated this thread, I did know which forum it best belonged in.

I doesn't really matter since most people read both forums. When in doubt, post in General. AFAIK *all* people from Creation visit General but not all people from General necessarily visit Creation (but I'm really only thinking lurkers and newbies here). The only difference might be that some people read General more often and some read Creation more often, depending on how much time they have. When a thread from General really belongs in Creation, I have no problem in getting it moved, that way it will even be visible in both forums (at least for a while)

I think this thread is a little 'edgy', could be in both forums. You could start a referal thread in General or I could get this thread moved to General for you (or you could just leave things as they are). Just let me know if you need me to get this thread moved or get other moderating action done...