08-03-2002 09:08									#1
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This thread is mostly for the warmongerers

The question is, what civs do you tend to jump into war with the quickest?

For me, its Egypt, with a tie between Greece and Germany for 2nd place.

(note, this thread has probably been done before, but, who knows, maybe throw some stories in, make it a bit comical, mocking our favorite losers, and have some fun, whaddayasay?)

Also, as a side poll, who do you tend to get friendly with? Hey, if your a TRUE warmongerer, you know the only answer to this question.

	08-03-2002 09:45									#2
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All else being equal, I think England is the easiest target. Expansionist doesn't help the AI all that much, even on huge maps. They never build any Scouts, just use the free one at the start. Any techs they get from huts, just get traded around anyways, as the AI never tries to keep a tech lead on the other AI. Commercial is a very weak trait, especially in how it applys to AI empires. Scientific, Religious, and Industrious (faster builds) all tend to help the AI build up Culture, which makes Conquest a bit more difficult. Military gives the AI better trained troops on average, and their cities are more likely to have Barracks. Commercial doesn't offer much in the way of resistance to invasion.

Other Favorite targets:

Anyone who doesn't have Iron.
Whoever builds the Great Library.
Pre-1.17f whoever built the Pyramids.
Persians and/or Romans before they can hook up the Iron.
French and Americans are almost as weak as the English.
Anyone I beat to Knights, Cavalry, or Tanks.

Least Favorite targets:

Zulu before I have Knights.
Greeks, though not quite as bad as Zulu.
Japanese in the Middle Ages.

	08-03-2002 09:55									#3
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Japan for me! I have a real love/hate relationship with Japan ... However since I play as Germans I have to wait to find them.

Of course Japan is my second favorite civ to play as, when I'm not Germans. When I am Japan, I like to conquer China as soon as I find them nearby. You guys are industrious, so get to work!

Who you play as is pretty important to this question ... I was going to say that with Egypt and Greece on your enemies list, you must like to play as Rome a lot. Then I looked at who was the poster... Rome just maybe!

As for who to be friendly with, France all the way (though sometimes I have to conquer them due to being neighbors). They are the least aggressive, so I think they make a more dependable friend. I think France will be a popular answer for friends because of this, and the "Joan is cute!" voters, to say nothing of the "Joan is hot!" voters...

edit: wow I like Aeson's thinking with who he targets... I never really thought that way. I almost always select targets based on geographic position, trying to conquer the land I want.

	08-03-2002 10:07									#4
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Nato, you got my number, don't ya?

Well, i play Rome, but, mostly cuz i like the Legionaries, and... uhhm, uhh... the city names... and uhh... urr... WOO ROME!!



Anyways, Egypt and Greece i probably fight alot cuz of the Culturally linked starting positions. Germany i fight alot more due to coincidence, they always seem to get a nice juicy piece of land right next to mine... or they just declare war on me, and i never let them forget it

I like to play America and England too tho. As America, i stay peaceful (i feel embarrased saying that in a thread aimed for warmongeres ), but as England, i jump at Germany's throat early. Usually before a third city is settled.

Generally, i disregard most strategy in picking opponents. Sometimes, a leader just looks at me the wrong way, or a civ settles an area that i was keen on settling next. Thats how most of my Egyptian wars start.

But if i do start wars for resources, its only when i need the resource. I VERY rarely start wars just for resource deprival. I figure, if i'm going in for resource deprival, i might as well just go in for existance deprivation.

	08-03-2002 11:26									#5
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I generally pick on whoever tries to pick on me first, which is why I chose Germany. Greece, Rome, and Zululand are close runners-up.

I'll also pick on anybody who's close to my starting position in or near some nice land. For some odd reason, this turns out to be Russia more often than not, even though I play many different civs and never use culturally linked starting positions.

	08-03-2002 11:29									#6
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I have a tendency to take out the Indians in the early game...other than that, some of my favorite targets are the Chinese and the Persians for no other reason other than they get in my way a lot.

	08-03-2002 14:03									#7
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Persia, Greece, and the Iroquois are all targets for my wrath, after the ancient era. Once their UUs are outdated, I move in and destroy their once-mighty armies.

Steele

PS: Another reason, each of those civs has completely destroyed me on one occasion or another, the only ones to do so.

	08-03-2002 14:20									#8
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England first (vote), Russia second, if playing a modern "european" game, taking out the expansionists. If playing an "ancient", it depends on who's closest; there's no favorite.

	08-03-2002 15:03									#9
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I always find the Zulus extremely annoying. They always contact me even though they are still barbarians late in the game. They always want my tech for 1 gold, and they constantly threaten and are Annoyed for no reason. And for some reason all of the other AI civs tolerate them. They are my #1 target due to their stupidity.

	08-03-2002 16:05									#10
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Roma Victor!

Whoever is next. Time for a snack. Hmmm, Joan looks succulent...

Salve

	08-03-2002 20:39									#11
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I usually want to crush my largest/richest neighbor during the Middle Ages, so that I can plunk down my Forbidden Palace and double my empire and productivity. Who would I prefer that neighbor to be? Well...

The English are usually weak, so they are #1
The Zulu are one of my favorites to kill, because once Impi are no longer a formidable unit, they are pushovers. #2

Beating up on Persia and/or Rome before they get iron is a good idea, but I usually don't do it. I don't like fighting really early on. Then again, sure enough both of them attacked me in my current game, and I had to deal with hordes of Immortals and Legions (thankfully, each had a terrible starting position, so they had small, stunted empires... and they didn't hit me at the same time).

-Arrian

	08-03-2002 21:01									#12
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I'll let Ralph guess who I chose...

	08-03-2002 21:56									#13
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I play as the English, and I naturally pick on the French as they are my historical enemy.

quote: I think England is the easiest target.

quote: The English are usually weak, so they are #1

These comments are so true- my unique unit can't kill anything!!!

	08-03-2002 23:05									#14
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I'm playing as the English atm, but they are boosted in my games.
Scouts now have 1 move and treat all terrain as roads. This gets me a big tech lead.

Back to the Topic, I often pick on the Germans as they are a historical enemy of mine and i also find them dangerous in the later ages so better to crush them earlier. The French always seem an easy target somehow so i often destroy them too. I will always pick on Russia if i get the chance because i hate catherine.

	09-03-2002 00:04									#15
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persia VRS Greeks!

	09-03-2002 00:09									#16
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I pick on anyone who's annoyed with me for no appearant reason.

Spec.

	09-03-2002 01:25									#17
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The British. I always pick them as a civ, (often the rest random,) I always get put next to them, and I always attack them. Its like a tradition. Every single time, they try to come up with a new way to beat me, but they never do.

	09-03-2002 02:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Brutus66 I play as the English, and I naturally pick on the French as they are my historical enemy. These comments are so true- my unique unit can't kill anything!!!

Yeah, England got screwed with the Man-o-War, but I could actually see the attributes being decent on a huge world. Commercial is a weaker attribute than it should be, too, which hurts them.

-Arrian

p.s. Anyone seen the irony in the Civ that started the Industrial Revolution not being Industrious

	09-03-2002 02:19									#19
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Yep, I've pointed that out myself before Arrian.

Thing is with the English, because we have such an amazing history it's hard to give us traits cos there are so many we could claim.

Expansionist - They got this right, we were natrual Expansionist coming from such a small Island

Industrious - Refer to Arrians point

Scientific - We were basically the Sole Inventors of the Medieval and Industrial Era's

Militaristic - How many wars have we won??? when was the last time we were invaded??

	09-03-2002 05:30									#20
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quote: Nato, you got my number, don't ya?

I sure do. "Ninot: MXCIVD - III - SPQR - IXV"

About picking opponents, I almost always conquer my immediate neighbor early. This is probably the most crucial part of the game, I think.

After that, since I know every AI is going down eventually (in theory at least...) its just a matter of conquering them one by one. So I generally go for whoever is geographically nearest/most advantagous. I always try to get everyone else at war with the current target, or at least neutral.

Of course I'm sure that is standard for everyone, nothing special. But if someones got a better way let me know!

	09-03-2002 06:29									#21
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Damn, am I the only one who picks on russia? Cathrine really annoys me a lot, so I make sure I make her life a living hell in the game.

	09-03-2002 06:49									#22
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i play as germany and always wait to get my panzers then build 5 armies and then go and kill off all the horrible colours like japan and zululand and russia... hate green brown and black color... yuck...

	09-03-2002 06:53									#23
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Germany has the most votes

	09-03-2002 07:08									#24
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Hrm, no one picks on Rome or Iroquois?

I can't believe that.

Well, I can understand why no one would pick on allmighty rome , but their must be some Indian hunters... and i don't mean Ghandi poachers.

	09-03-2002 07:18									#25
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I also pick on Russia often.
I don't play with any specific civs often, but no matter who I choose, I am normally near Russia. They fall quite easily in the beginning but once they get started they are much harder to crush. So I kill them now, and save myself the trouble later.

	09-03-2002 07:57									#26
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I ALWAYS play Russia, so when they release MP, you'll pick on me, ok? RUSSIA RULES!!!

	09-03-2002 09:41									#27
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I bet Germany and Zulus are the highest because they are the only Civs with a 5 in aggressiveness.

Glad to see plenty of people still hate us evil Americans! Must be the "US was as bad as USSR" theory at work.

	09-03-2002 19:05									#28
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quote: Originally posted by nato Glad to see plenty of people still hate us evil Americans!

Aren't you mistaking Civ3 for real life? It's just is a game, with rules, settings and traits, making decent "characters" for the civ leaders. If I say, that I kill English and Russia first, that doesn't mean I hate them (hey, my wife is Russian), but that I'm taking out 2 expansionist neighbors, which is good for my game progress. And if I say, that Abe is a svcker, it doesn't mean that I hate Americans. A few of my best friends are Americans.

quote: Must be the "US was as bad as USSR" theory at work.

What's wrong with that theory?

	09-03-2002 20:11									#29
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Some people pick their enemies for reasons related to the game, some for real life, I expect. Same with how people pick the civs they play... the Americans are one of the weakest civs, yet people play them quite a bit out of patriotism, I suppose.

	10-03-2002 01:26									#30
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Well, i dont exactly know how weak the Americans really are. Despite their UU, they usually tend to get to a nice, powerful status in my games. And thats with the AI playing as them.

Actually, the ONLY time i've every picked on the Americans in game, was a Martha's World map. America as #2 on the scoring list at the time (out of 14), and they were acting like the Germans. Made some pretty outrageous demands of pretty much all the civs in the game. Finnaly, Ghandi didn't like the way the USA was treating everyone, so they asked me if I wanted to "Go over there"(to borrow a WW1 term) and depants the Americans.

I actually made a point of sending 45 tanks across the ocean, and i completely swept the Americans off of USA land. But even with the Depansing, they managed to rapidly expand on their South America colonies. Now they have sole possesion of everything south of Mexico on that Continent. I haven't ever found USA to be COMPLETELY laughable. In my games, they can hold their weight better than most nations.