08-03-2002 22:48									#1
	Raw materials vs. finished goods Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

In Civ III, there is no distinction between raw materials and finished goods.

Superficially, the "wines" resource is a picture of grapes, and the "ivory" resource is a picture of an elephant. But beyond this, there is no mechanism to take a resource (any of the 3 types: strategic, luxury, or bonus) and "manufacture" a finished good.

What I think would be nice is something along the lines of Sid Meier's other game Colonization, where you would harness a resource like "tobacco", build a "cigar factory" in your city, and then sell them for profit.

Civ III has replaced the Civ 2 trading system of caravans for the bargaining table, but I believe it would be useful to have both. You could make large trade agreements with other civs to provide resources (or finished goods) every turn, but you should also, be able to shop them around city to city like the old system.

the purpose of this would be not only constructing a unique economy for your cities (each manufacturing different goods), but also so that caravans could be attacked/plundered and gold given as an award. More importantly, this would give PRIVATEERS an actual function in the game.

Privateers are PIRATE ships (see the flag they are flying!) and PIRATES need BOOTY (no not that kind! Well, on second thought, both kinds ) You should get gold when you sink a merchant ship as well as kill/capture a caravan.

This doesn't exist in Civ III, but it should.

	08-03-2002 23:40									#2
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Lest buil a Narcotic cartel with a canabis resourse!

	09-03-2002 00:22									#3
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That's a good idea. I don't think there is any practical way of implementing it. The closest thing I think we can do is make buildings that increase production or trade, yet require resources in the city square to be built.

Steele

	09-03-2002 03:41									#4
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Hi ahenobarb:

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I think Colonization-type goods chains in Civ is simply an impractical idea. Colonization was barely playable due to that mechanism if you had more than like 10 colonies. Since IMO one of Civ's biggest problems is abusive levels of micromanagement, I think your proposal goes completely in the wrong direction.

With a different economic system, or better economic AI, it could work. I don't think either of those are in the cards for Civ3, 4 or N based on the track record...

	09-03-2002 04:04									#5
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quote: Originally posted by steelehc That's a good idea. I don't think there is any practical way of implementing it. The closest thing I think we can do is make buildings that increase production or trade, yet require resources in the city square to be built. Steele

Well you're almost one step ahead of me there. There's a flag that doesn't seem to be used by any improvement at the moment, called "50% Luxury Output". If you make a small wonder that requires a luxury resource in it's radius, then add that flag, you will end up with say 3 Wine, instead of 2. If you had 4 resources in the city area, the building would create 2 more. So you could have a Distillery for example, or a Weaver for a Silk area. It's not as good as what they had in Colonization unfortunately, but it is an industry building of sorts.

	09-03-2002 04:58									#6
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quote: Lest buil a Narcotic cartel with a canabis resourse!

erm, what if canabis is leagle in my civ (AS IT SHOULD BE!!!)


anywhjo, this idea is brillkaint, i would luv to see the imperialism 2 trade/resource system idealy, cos then you can import raw, and export manufactured as MASSIVE profit. just as in real life, so it is no longer a necesative to HAVE the resources. (ie, japan has few resources, so it imports them, and exports manufacured, or it did when it was more industrialised before i think the 80's). not to suire on this though. but you get the idea.

	09-03-2002 07:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Willem There's a flag that doesn't seem to be used by any improvement at the moment, called "50% Luxury Output

Isnt that the flag for the marketplace, that increases the happiness from luxuries in that city??

	09-03-2002 11:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Isnt that the flag for the marketplace, that increases the happiness from luxuries in that city??

No, that's "Increases Luxury Trade". I haven't seen a single improvement in the game that uses this flag, I'm not sure why. It would be a good way to squeeze an extra luxury or two out of a city.

	12-03-2002 22:34									#9
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You're right, there isn't really a way to implement this and the "flags" in the editor are a poor substitute.

Perhaps with an expansion pack we will get the ability to have an events.txt (or equivalent) where we can give a cash award for capturing a "caravan" or a "merchant ship".

A few of the Civ 2 scenarios had this ability and I found it greatly enhanced the naval experience ("Four Seas", for instance)

	12-03-2002 22:47									#10
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Willem

doesn't 50% Luxury Output mean that the amount you spend on happiness increases? that is what i took that as

	12-03-2002 23:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 Willem doesn't 50% Luxury Output mean that the amount you spend on happiness increases? that is what i took that as

Well after looking at it again, it's possible I've been misinterpreting what the the help explanation says. This is the wording:

"If checked, luxury revenue produced in the city in which the selected improvement is built is increased by 50 %."

It could very well be as you say, now that I think about it. Hmm, I guess I'll have to rethink a couple of my buildings. Though it sort of opens up other possibilities though.

	13-03-2002 00:03									#12
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hmm nice idea civ 3 mixed with colonization... would prob be better than n e thing yet...