13-03-2002 04:21									#121
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It's this thread that needs to be closed, not the forum.

	13-03-2002 04:26									#122
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Velocyrix,

Are you playing the game any more?

	13-03-2002 04:36									#123
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's very obvious from reading through this thread that "some" poeple don't understand the concept of being civil... sigh...

	13-03-2002 04:45									#124
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Btw, how do you use ignore?

Frequently.


Dan

	13-03-2002 04:48									#125
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by TheDarkCavalier to AJ, you don't bother so.. U R SO FREEKING G.AY!!!!!! by looking at YOUR idiotic name, no one would ever want to talk to YOU, go read your book, you b!tch, I'm off to play Civ III... P.S. Sorry everyone, but I just had to.

Had to?

It seems that things like this were the whole point of the thread.
Why did you "have to"? I'm sure you will have a clever response for me, but I don't think I or a lot of people on this particular thread would "have to " respond.

If you feel you "have to" just hold your breath and count to ten and then don't do it. It's the civil thing to do.

P.S. By the way I am not a friend of Vel. I have never even posted on one of his threads before. But, I have read a lot of them and I do respect his OPINION, whether I agree with him or not.

	13-03-2002 04:57									#126
	can't be sure, but... Got spare money?

Perhaps DarkCav is attempting to see if those who talk about civility, actually do talk civilly.

Only, he can't really admit that, as that would defeat the purpose. He must give the appearance of genuinely being a troll to see how others react to that, whether civilly or not. If others knew he was only trying to provoke a response instead of being a troll, the responses would not be a valid indication of true attitudes.

As I am assuming from other people's responses, they have not considered this possibility. His respondents have been fairly civil in the face of "trolling", the response is valid.

Perhaps a premature conclusion, but it does not appear there is any hypocrisy here.

DarkCav, was that your point? Or are you just an ass?

	13-03-2002 04:59									#127
	Support Apolyton

I think that we can all agree that being civil and treating other politely, even people who disagree with you is a good thing. I dont think that any one in this thread is trying to gang up on anyone else and pick a fight. Even if you disagree with someone, why do people have to restore to name calling??? Often times it you are trying to change someone's mind, telling them that they are stupid for holding a certain opion and yelling at them will do you no good and will never change that person's mind. I would like to remind everyone that this is just a game, and why do have to fight over something so simple. If people start to fight over the most simplest of things, I dont think I want to know how they are out in the real world and how they treat other people.

If someone has a different opion then you, you do not need to restore to name calling, and you can voice your own opion without becoming hostile to others. If you think what someone says is wrong then just give your reason why you think they are wrong and dont attack the person, which is a very weak counter argument. Vel and the others right in saysing that there is indeed a lack of civility on these forums. I just guest it is just a result of how people in general treat each other, which is indeed sad.

	13-03-2002 05:00									#128
	Support Apolyton

Home again at my townhouse and...well...home again here... Couldn't resist the pull of this place, and I'm glad to see LOTS of faces turning out and posting (with civility, I might add! WhoooHooo!) on this thread! Stuff like this....like what we're seeing right here is a sign that we don't have to let the boors and trolls take the place over.

The fact is, the Mods have keen eyes, but they'll run themselves ragged trying to police this place, and in any case, if they tried to close each and every thread where there was "civil misconduct" even this thread would likely have been closed, thanks to a few bad posts.

I'm glad they don't, but that means it's up to all of us to set the tone. I also think that, given the comment made earlier in this thread that the folk of Firaxis have been avoiding the Civ3 General forum like the plague of late, the fact that Dan posted here at all says a lot....it says that if we set the tone, and simply reject the flames and trolls, they'll come back here.

That's important....

-=Vel=-

	13-03-2002 05:20									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I sure hope that you are right velociryx, and that the people at firaxis will come back to the general forum.

	13-03-2002 05:23									#130
	Tired of ads?

The proof is in the pudding, my friend....true, Dan's post here was the soul of brevity, but he DID come here....it's a beginning...

-=Vel=-

	13-03-2002 05:27									#131
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Being a mod... I track who is surfing the specific forums that I moderate... The Firaxis people do indeed view the General Forum on a far higher basis than you might think

	13-03-2002 05:35									#132
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

And that is very good to hear! Coolio, and thanks for the news, Ming!

-=Vel=-

	13-03-2002 05:37									#133
	One year ago... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I remember last year when I first started out on this forum, I had been lurking for a while just reading posts and things were pretty cool. But shortly after I started posting, I noticed a flame war going on in another thread. I started a new thread, almost exactly like this one, about keeping it civil. I think I even used that very same word.

But the response was different. The first few responses were that I was imagining things, that this was a very civil forum. I was told to go look at other forums out there and see how bad it could get. Overall, that thread died quickly. Most people didn't think it was a problem. Of course, I don't really remember it that well. It was a long time ago so perhaps my memory has skewed it.

But contrast that to this thread's response. Four pages already, and many would say civility has gone to toilet. The biggest reason for this is probably that Civ 3 has actually been released in the last year and we are talking about a real game, not one that we were making wish lists for. I also imagine things have changed because there's a heckuvalot more folks at Apolyton now than a year ago. But no doubt Vel's rep has a lot to do with the almost unaminously positive response.

Which brings me to the point of using one's influence well. Joe Nobody (apologies if this is actually someone's handle) is more likely to be ignored than someone like Vel, or Korn, or even Yin.

I am reminded of that cheesy but classic Spiderman line, "With gReat Power, comes Great Responsibility."

Of course, we're all human and will slip up. Uncle Ben died because Spiderman made a mistake, but Spiderman is a hero because he learned from it. ? Ok, now I don't even know what kind of point I'm trying to make anymore.

Well, take what you will from it.
Cheers!

	13-03-2002 05:42									#134
	Re: One year ago... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Captain Of course, we're all human and will slip up. Uncle Ben died because Spiderman made a mistake, but Spiderman is a hero because he learned from it. ? Ok, now I don't even know what kind of point I'm trying to make anymore. Well, take what you will from it. Cheers!

Uncle Ben the rice guy?

	13-03-2002 05:44									#135
	Tired of ads?

It is good that the people at firaxis are at least now looking at this forum again. Form all the recent patchs I can see that they really have been listening to all the fans and trying to fix what they find wrong with the game.
Also I think the Captain is making a good point.

	13-03-2002 06:54									#136
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Captain : well, my point was to express my opinion on this...

To all of you: JUST GET A LIFE, OR GO READ A BOOK!

	13-03-2002 07:09									#137
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by TheDarkCavalier Captain : well, my point was to express my opinion on this... To all of you: JUST GET A LIFE, OR GO READ A BOOK!

It's fine to express your opinion...nicely.

The way you expressed it was the point of the whole thread. I am thinking other words about this but I will keep them to myself. That is what being civil is all about.

Opinions are like a******'s, everybody has one and they all stink......except mine.

	13-03-2002 07:12									#138
	Re: can't be sure, but... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Captain Perhaps DarkCav is attempting to see if those who talk about civility, actually do talk civilly. Only, he can't really admit that, as that would defeat the purpose. He must give the appearance of genuinely being a troll to see how others react to that, whether civilly or not. If others knew he was only trying to provoke a response instead of being a troll, the responses would not be a valid indication of true attitudes. As I am assuming from other people's responses, they have not considered this possibility. His respondents have been fairly civil in the face of "trolling", the response is valid. Perhaps a premature conclusion, but it does not appear there is any hypocrisy here. DarkCav, was that your point? Or are you just an ass?

Captain,

ROTF. Maybe I just have a strange sense of humour, but the logical nuances in that struck me as excellently hilarious.

	13-03-2002 07:40									#139
	Civility, Darkness, and all that Jazz Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There is still a lot of civility, but there has been more hostility recently - but even pre CivIII. Perhaps it began with CTP - possibly the first Civ game that came out of the package below expectation levels.

I am concerned that some newbies may be leaving because they are encountering flame wars. When I started I was looking for information and would have gone back to RTFM if I had gotten that response.

I think Empire was, or became, a White Wolf game. I played it too way back when, and it still has a better patrol feature than any of the Civ games -- IMHO

Dark can mean unenlightened, I suspect, but maybe not since we called the Dark Ages the Medi- evil ages. But I do enjoy a good unenlightened Guinness now and then. Although my wife's fact is that it isn't good for me.

Thanks for starting a thoughtful thread, Vel.

	13-03-2002 07:43									#140
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Three points, one off-topic and two on-topic.

Off-topic -
Captain's spelling of hypocracy (as hypocrisy) reminded me of a thread over at Elder Scrolls. It was titled "Hypocrisy" and is to date the largest ever non-engineered thread (a bit over 800 posts). It was thread-jacked multiple times with a discussion not unlike this one that devolved into a flame war before being thread-jacked again. It was finally locked by a mod to let it die naturally.

On-topic -
1. I'm almost certain TDC is a DL who needs a PCR and a vacation and possibly some other TLAs I can't think of right now.

2. I generally ignore whole threads that seem negative. Most often, it's the same people posting the exact same thing over and over and it's always the same posters in every one of the 'This game is broken' whining threads.

(edit section)
I believe TDC did make one excellant comment that was apparently aimed at the wrong people.

quote: To all of you: JUST GET A LIFE, OR GO READ A BOOK!

	13-03-2002 07:50									#141
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think you give the downers and flamers here too much credit... it's not so much a psychological, need attention thing as it is a personality thing. I hate to say it, but some people are just rude at the core. Whoa, I'm back to the apple metaphor...

	13-03-2002 07:52									#142
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

so, now you invent stupid 2,3-letter words... unable to speak normally... yeaaaaaaa

	13-03-2002 07:55									#143
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by TheDarkCavalier so, now you invent stupid 2,3-letter words... unable to speak normally... yeaaaaaaa

Yeah what do those words mean?

	13-03-2002 08:01									#144
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Yeah what do those words mean?

sorry

TDC = TheDarkCavalier
DL = double login
PCR = post count reduction
TLA = three letter acronym

	13-03-2002 08:03									#145
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Qilue sorry TDC = TheDarkCavalier DL = double login PCR = post count reduction TLA = three letter acronym

thank you, you could have refered me to the thread that explains all of these,but you didn't you took the time to help a newbie.

see how that works TDC? Do you think he would have answered you as nicely?

	13-03-2002 08:18									#146
	Support Apolyton

HAH! You think I CARE?! And I AM NOT a double login, I'm just sick of all this s...

	13-03-2002 08:27									#147
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski thank you, you could have refered me to the thread that explains all of these,but you didn't you took the time to help a newbie.

We were all newbies once, whether to this forum or the game. Some just seem to have forgotten.

	13-03-2002 11:07									#148
	Tired of ads?

Quotes:

Guest19382] When will MULTIPLAYER come out
Guest19382] You need to implement more editors to the game for unit creation (cause it's so time consuming to create units only Darksheer really has been good it this so far)
Guest19382] shut up with the 00:00 thing
Guest19382] Schee is just as annoying as your editors
Guest19382] Why don't we have wonder movies. I really loved those
[Guest19382] money? you should have plenty your programmers cut all the corners
Guest19382] you put the game out way to soon
Guest19382] you should have made it better
Guest19382] I just want CivIII Multiplayer Gold Edition
Guest19382] Here's what you need to do very soon. 1. Multiplayer 2. Zooms for mapeditor 3. Scenerio creator 4. More units and a unit creator thats easy to create animations
Guest19382] I'm leaving you don't give any answers just "No comment" or give us the run around

Sound familiar? Whether or not this person is contributing (?) to this thread, the issue is the same.

I've just started participating in the Apolyton community, and I want to have fun with it, the people, and the game.

Contribute please, don't flame.

If anything, take out your aggression by gaining retribution from those damn Germans (although they do make nice kindling for my warmongering ways!).

R

	13-03-2002 11:26									#149
	The Smell of Fresh Blood Increase Your PM Length

Vel, nice try, but chaos will reign! So glad to see very little has changed here. Perhaps even worse.

Actually, I've been avoiding this forum for awhile, because I assumed that it was no longer amusing. But no. Unfortunately, I've seemed to have missed some very good threads.

And now for some honorable mentions (for without you, this thread would have continued to be a huggie borefest).

TheDarkCavalier- your new to me, but keep up the good work. Kneejerk responses are always the best way to stir the water. However you could still use a little work on your forum. You're insults are weak. Make them more cutting. Don't fall for the trap of long insults. Very few can master them (miss ya ****). The best is too find the happy medium of harsh insult within one line of posting. Keep working at it, you'll get there.

NOHonor-Very dissappointing. You've done such good work in the past. You even managed to spread your venom to other forums. An admirable task. I truly expected you to take the lead on this one.

Look at this post:

quote: Originally posted by Whoha 1) Due to the lack of sufficently different units and unbalanced units, all the strats that work have been discovered. and 2) I doubt everyone is playing with the default rules set, I sure am not. I myself have all infrastructure reducing corruption, Higher naval movement, doubled hitpoints,etc so strats that work with my particular rules set wont work for anyone else.

All Hell should have broken out after this one. This thread should have been closed on page three. TDC came in, but he's still new at this. Only one .

Dan Magaha- you're on a completely different level than the regular posters here. But what happened? A one word post from you should have started a series of threads about it. Have you been posting here too much? You're strength is stealth. Hiding in the background. Waiting for the right moment. Then strike fast and fly off into the fog. Alas, it didn't seem to catch here. I'll still give you for the effort.

	13-03-2002 12:13									#150
	Increase Your PM Length

Velociryx:

Since we're at a "revival" meeting of sorts, Vel, you know you have the power to cast demons out of the "tent," right? All you have to do is call on a higher power whose Name Shalt Not Be Spoken, But Begins With an "M."

CYBERAmazon

(P.S. In all seriousness, Vel, the thread is quite interesting. Keep up the good work.)