12-03-2002 03:21									#1
	CIV3 -- my final thoughts... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I've probably invested about 50 hours of my time into Civ3, and while I've enjoyed it for the most part, it is no longer challenging... and it is no longer holding my interest. Frankly, I thought the game would have a lot more staying power, but once I learned the appropriate tactics, the utter predictability of the game led to tedium. Personally, I found the biggest flaw of Civ3 to be that the outcome is always crystal clear once 25% of the game is completed... and once you know the outcome, the rest is dull.

The funny thing is, I think visiting this site frequently made me enjoy the game LESS, because all the suggestions/complaints made me painfully aware of how good this game could have been...

Well, I'm holding out hope that MOO3 will prove to be more satisfying TBS.

-ollie-

	12-03-2002 03:25									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sorry bloodysmurf. If it makes you feel any better, although I got more than 50 hours out of it, I ended at the same place.

Condolences man, and condolences for what could have been a masterpiece, and was instead, a flavor of the month.

-=Vel=-

	12-03-2002 03:42									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well you could always try what many (some) of us have taken up in place of playing the game, serious mod-ing of stats and graphics and hanging out here.

BTW 50 hours of play time? Maybe I'm slow, but I think it takes me about 50h to play one game!

	12-03-2002 03:45									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Civil, but negative

It has been more than a flavour of the month; and if any expansions are handled properly it will run much longer and bring the jaded players back

	12-03-2002 03:49									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I hope you're right, Myrddin....If you look back on this forum, you'll see that I began as one of Firaxis' and Civ3's biggest supporters.

That I am no longer posting here in that capacity *also* speaks volumes, I think. And I'm not the first to have such a complete reversal of opinion.

Again, I hope you're right that when the dust settles, the game will be in the kind of condition that it'll lure the jaded/disappointed back, but at this point...I don't know.

-=Vel=-

	12-03-2002 04:02									#6
	no no nooooo Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No final thoughts allowed. We are just getting started.

We are going to be at this for years and before we are done Sid AND Soren will both wish they were Derek Smart.

	12-03-2002 04:03									#7
	Got spare money?

Good ol' Master Smart....hehe...almost forgot about him....

-=Vel=-

	12-03-2002 04:10									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Again, I hope you're right that when the dust settles, the game will be in the kind of condition that it'll lure the jaded/disappointed back, but at this point...I don't know.

With talk like that I'll be breakin out the Billie Holiday soon.

Since this thread has a civilized (no pun intended) tone I'd like to comment on this (its been buggin me). For some (strange) reason I keep the empty game boxes above this computer and I can look up and see Sid Meiers name on quite a few. His name on a game has meant a quality game that I definitely wanted to have a look at. I'm not sure but I may have them all.

If you were Sid Meier would you want your name on this version? Perhaps someone could suggest that he reads some of these posts. He might want to remove his name!

	12-03-2002 04:12									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Who is Derek Smart?

	12-03-2002 04:22									#10
	who is derek smart? Increase the size of your Attachments

Guest Editorial:
History

By Derek Smart


SMART SPEAK

By now, you already know who I am, what Battlecruiser 3000AD is and of course heard about or experienced the 1996 botched release of one of the most eagerly anticipated and hyped titles of all time. The abuse, the insults, the finger pointing, the blame etc. have all been shoved back and forth since 1996 and to this day, the controversy continues.

What happened to BC3K in September 1996?

Everyone, from the publishers to the Usenet detractors who don't even own the game, has a version of what they believed really happened. The gaming press and general populous at large, have stirred up story after story, theory after theory, with no idea of what really happened. Every story, every thread, every flame war reeked of speculation, conjecture and even blatant lies. The Usenet has generated in excess of 65,000 posts since the game's release. Everyone has an opinion and unless you're Derek Smart, you won't have a clue as to what it takes to watch a decade of hard work go up in flames. Someone woke up one morning and made a decision that was to change my life forever.

This, is my story.

http://www.loonygames.com/content/1...st/index2.shtml

	12-03-2002 04:23									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The penalty for not knowing who he is and then, gasp, asking without first doing a web search is this...you have to go read all 65,000 of those posts Derek is braggin about and return here with a 100 word synopsis.

	12-03-2002 04:31									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I dont have time to read all 65,000 posts, I'm working on a unit graphics mod.

	12-03-2002 04:48									#13
	Final Thoughts, pt.2 :) Increase the size of your Attachments

A few more thoughts, prompted by some of the replies.

[1] Upon reflection, maybe I've put in closer to 70 hours. I've played six complete games: 1 regent, 1 monarch, 3 emperor, and 1 deity. The only one that I lost was deity, but I know I could beat it if I had a decent starting point... and frankly, I don't care enough to try

[2] I will say that I DID get my $50 worth, but I would probably give the game an overall rating of 75% (on the PC Gamer scale). I'd give the first third of the game an 85% thought .

[3] Next to the mid/end-game tedium, my second biggest disappointment was the lack of REAL scenarios... with differences that exceed changes in maps or minor unit changes. I think this game would benefit immensely from semi-random condition-dependent events... anything to keep you on your toes and lessen the predictability.

[4] As for using the editor to tweak unit stats... I don't this can alleviate the fundamental problem of mid/late-game tedium .

-ollie-

	12-03-2002 04:59									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: As for using the editor to tweak unit stats... I don't this can alleviate the fundamental problem of mid/late-game tedium

It doesn't. You TWEAK then see what happens for a bit then if it gets boring you come back here.

I'm trying the colourless unit and 3 pop point settler/3 point town variants a try (togeather) and I can say that some weird stuff is happening so far.

	12-03-2002 05:31									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hmmm....to the Sid question.

Yes and no. On the one hand...if I'm Sid, and I hold a majority stake in Firaxis...I KNOW that by putting my name on the Civ3 box, it'll sell a WAD of copies....that's money in my pocket, and I recently got married and stuff, soooo....yes. Even if it's rushed...sure...drop my name on it and let's make some coin. The 4x community is noted for it's loyalty and creativity anyway, so if we make a decent pretense of supporting the game, then we'll be able to win back some of the fans we alienate in the beginning.

On the other hand....compared to the masterpieces he's released in the past....I think I'd be....anxious to wash my hands of it.

Is any of the above true, or what's going through the big guy's mind? I have no idea....but when asked the conjectural question, that's where my own thoughts take me.

-=Vel=-
PS: Fully patched, Derek Smart's game really is pretty cool....
-v.

	12-03-2002 08:25									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Since when did this turn into a role-playing forum? For people who don't post in this forum you sure have been posting a lot lately...posting a lot OFF TOPIC lately.

	12-03-2002 08:55									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmmm...well, I'm guessing MOHonor's post was directed at me, so I will attempt to answer it.

To my knowledge, this place has not turned into a role playing forum. Also, to my knowledge, the general way the game is played is that someone asks a question, and someone else answers it. That's usually the way in which dialogues on internet forums are conducted. Maybe not tho....maybe not....

Anyway, since the question posed was (see the post six above my answer, by SpencerH)

"If you were Sid Meier would you want your name on this version?"

That was the question I answered.

I am clearly not Sid, so I had to put myself in his shoes for a moment in order to answer the question as asked.

Since Sid's name appears on the Civ3 box, and he's generally credited with designing the game, I'm not exactly sure how that is "off topic," what, with this being the Civ3 General section and all.

Or perhaps you were referencing my "Civility" post...also fairly topical in its nature, since it was addressing the somewhat degenerative manner in which conversations have been carried out in this particular forum lately.

At any rate....if you wish to continue the discussion of whether or not my posts are off topic (which would truly be an off topic subject for a Civ3 General forum), why don't we take that particular debate to e-mail?

WebMaster@velociryx.every1.net



-=Vel=-

	12-03-2002 11:26									#18
	Re: CIV3 -- my final thoughts... Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by bloodysmurf Well, I'm holding out hope that MOO3 will prove to be more satisfying TBS. -ollie-

Me too! I really hope Moo3 will have a lot of depth and a better gameplay. Civ3 really do get boring after the 1st half of the game. Still, I had fun for the first 2 games when I didn't know how weak the ai really is.

	12-03-2002 19:25									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Since when did this turn into a role-playing forum?

It didnt, I posed a question related to ideas that have been percolating around these forums for a while. Some players love the game. Others are clearly disappointed with the game itself (I suspect the more experienced players although there is no evidence for that yet) and the poor interaction between the publishers and we the consumers (the packaging fiasco and the lawsuits of the German fans). We have few options open to us to voice our displeasure. Since we live in free societys we can refuse to buy the game and hope that market forces will exert pressure. Unfortunately, we have already purchased the game "sight unseen," in part because of the name "Sid Meier" and our respect for his previous work. This forum, and others like it are another way to voice our displeasure, but they will only have an effect if they are taken seriously. Puerile ranting, while occasionally fun to observe, will detract from any positive effect our criticism has. Vel's recent threads and posts are therefore ON-TOPIC.

My question was rather pointed and I hoped it would provoke some serious discussion of this problem that may be read by those in a position to do something about the situation. I doubt that Sid Meier habituates these forums but firaxis folk do. Maybe they will pass along the message. Sid Meier is not Derek Sheer (fascinating story BTW).

Viva la Internet Revolution! Voice your opinion!