03-01-2001 03:25									#1
	Gradual improvement Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As time progresses certain units/improvements/tile improvments, should increase in effectiveness.

Units like tanks should become more reliable with more advanced Oil Refining and Steel Production.
Swordsmen like legions should become more effective as stronger more maluble metals are discovered.

Improvements like libraries should become more effective as they age, as more and more books are added every year.
Computer centers should become more effective as they age as the hardware is becoming more and more advanced, especially with advances like Micro Chips.

Tile improvements like nets should become more effective with modern materials, as a modern rope net is a lot less likely to break then an ancient woven net.
Irrigation should become more and more effective as time progresses. Ancient irrigation was a network of simple chanels, while modern irrigation is a system of underground piping, sprinklers an other automated systems.

	07-01-2001 03:16									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

In real life gradual improvement mean that the old one is replace with the new one. That's made with same cost,not automatic. IMO that aspect should be cover by upgrades of the same improvement, like in CTP (mine/advanced mine/Mega mine). For city improvements the same (library/university/computer center). It could be more upgrades in a row.
For units - I am a big fan of workshop (see the thread "Unit Workshop" Module List ; http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001627)

	07-01-2001 03:24									#3
	Remove this text

Does this mean researching a lot of things like advanced pottery, or do things automatically get stronger/better?

	09-01-2001 10:16									#4
	Support Apolyton

I can see gradual improvement within CIV-II terms.

The discovery of gunpowder gives you musketeers. It isn't untill the discovery of conscription that you can built a stronger infantry unit. The difference between the two units is 3/3 : 5/5 in both defense and attack.

It could be made so that with the discovery of metallurgy a musketeer could be "upgraded" to the d/a strenght of 4/4. It's something you can see in old pictures. Uptill the end of the 17th century a musket always had to be supported by a sort of pitchfork because of it's weight, quite unhandy. Because of improved metallurgic production from the early 18th century on muskets got more and more lighter and musketeers a factor of importance on the battlefield, because of higher manouevrability and firepower.

Same goes for the rifleman. The (auto)loadingmechanism and thus the firepower of the rifle has dramatically improved. With the discovery of machinetools their d/a strenght could be upgraded to 6/6.
I think they should be outgunned by the new to introduce unit of machinegunner, say with the discovery of ?? combustion !. Beginning with d/a strength 8/6, going to d/a 8/7 with ?? automobile !, and 8/8 with massproduction.

The scale of strenght from units now reaches from 1 to 20 (?, nuke, can't exactly remember at this moment). If this scale is stretched (to 40), more of these gradual improvements of units can be expressed in the game without having to introduce new better units each time. And it would be more or less historically correct too.

Question is what to do with old units if stronger new ones can be build.
Will they become:

1. obsolete (can't be upgraded);
   
2. do they have to be upgraded (i.e. return to the homecity to be equipped with better gear which will cost less than having to build a new unit);
   
3. or is upgrading of existing units something which will happen automatically with the discovery of the advancement that will make the improvement possible (I wouldn't like that, though consequence of the alternative is more micromanagement).

	15-01-2001 05:16									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

There have been some suggestions that Civ III should have 'graded' facilities that the player builds in sequence as time goes on.

For example:

Library
Large Library
Extensive Library
Library Comlpex

Of course, the contributors to the Civ III "If Just One Idea..." list v.2, have come up with much better suggestions for this graduated city improvements model, so why not check them out?


------------------
Josef Given
josefgiven@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by JosefGiven (edited January 14, 2001).]

	16-01-2001 10:03									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't think the player needs to build the city upgrades, there is enough micromanagement already! For example, an advisor could keep a list of what cities can be upgraded and have that as part of a report that appears at the beginning of every turn. All the player needs to do is to approve the upgrade for a city and the workers would do the rest.

As for units, I am in favour of upgradable units. Units in the field that can be upgraded are flagged. They have to go to a city with a barracks to receive new equipment and training. The units will also lose a small amount of experience, at least temporarily.