14-01-2001 23:39									#1
	Well, can I at least SIMULATE a market economy? Increase Your PM Length

Ok, it has been brought to my attention that the chances of a market economy are almost hopeless, and that many people, in fact, do not want it. My primary reason for wanting the economy is for the purposes of scenarios.

I have, therefore, compiled a list of features I would like to see in order to make it seem like there is an economic system.

I want a trigger for when a unit of a particular type and civilization is occupying a particular square or squares.

This can be used so that I can create occupied territory and blockaded waters.

I want to be able to limit unit construction to certain cities so that I can prevent certain cities from being able to build certain units if they are "cut off" from various materials. It also helps for limiting the production of a certain unit to a certain area of the world for example with Elephants because elephants only live in certain parts of the world.

Another thing I want is a "Improvement Destroyed" function for terrain improvements. I would also want a function that can change the attack/defense/FP/HP of units. That way, I can make it so that a loss of a railroad damages unit capabilities to fight because they will be unable to get supplies.

Essentially, I want to be able to make modifications to insert new Rules.txt files within the game as Captain Nemo suggested. That way I can change unit abilities and terrain values in response to various actions in the game.

I would also like to be able to make my own dialog boxes. So that I can have a box pop up with a message with a Yes and No option that the player must select, and each option will have a different result. There would be an If… Then statement for each response. This feature would not be that difficult. The computer would simply have a blank where you would have the text appear like with the Text option already in the events in scenarios, but there would also be two buttons one being a True and one being a False. The titles of each button would also be able to be edited.

I would also like an If Declared War and if Peace Treaty Signed triggers.

I would also like a City Built option for when a city is constructed, and it must be for a particular area. That way, I can have a part of the world with an extra special commodity that when a particular civ builds a city there, then they get special bonuses by “controlling” that commodity.

I would also like to see a bunch of completely arbitrary terrain improvements (maybe 5), where you determine when modifying the terrain exactly what effect each will have as is done already with the irrigation and mining.

My goal is to be able to create a game where economic war can be waged. The American Civil War is a good example. I want to be able to set up a Union blockade which will make building particular units much more difficult if not impossible for the Confederates. Also, I want to be able to make it so that when the key cities along the Mississippi are captured, the Confederates are weakened because Texas becomes cut off from the rest of the Confederacy, and the meat could not be sent East. Also, when the Mississippi is under Union control, the revenues reaped from Cotton Field improvements drop tremendously because they can not ship their goods.

Also, the Union begins destroying rail lines making it hard to send troops to the front lines as well as supplies. As a result, troops already on the front become much less able to fight without supplies. This may seem like a rather easy game to play, but you can just as easily make YOU the Confederacy in which case it almost becomes as difficult as something like Red Front.

Essentially, I want to make the player FEEL like there is a market economy even if there really isn’t. They would have to play my scenarios as though there were one, and there decisions economically would have an impact on the game.

Since none of these changes will be fundamental to the game, but will in fact only be manipulating game functions I think that it should not be hard to develop an Events Editor that will be able to do all of these things.

Here's Captain Nemo's post as well in case you want to read it.


[This message has been edited by Dom Pedro II (edited January 14, 2001).]

	15-01-2001 00:22									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I started a thread on the 13th on how a resource/trade model could be fun to have in civIII. Very much along the lines of what you are proposing. The thread dissapeared after only one day though!? Someone did write that they were actually meaning to implement resources into the game so that in order to run your factories you will need coal, etc... If this is the case embargos and other economic warfare will be an alternative in civIII

	15-01-2001 01:36									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeah, Cannes, what you were saying was basically along the lines of what I wanted, but it seems increasingly likely that a resource system like that WILL NOT be in the game, so I would like to do the next best thing and make a SIMULATED economy. I hope AT LEAST that much is in there. Otherwise I will not be happy with this game at all.

	15-01-2001 01:41									#4
	Support Apolyton

Yes, the resource system is essential. For me that the most important improvement that should be made in the transition from Civ II to Civ III, even more important than having more than 7 civs in a game.

	15-01-2001 01:42									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes, the resource system is essential. For me that the most important improvement that should be made in the transition from Civ II to Civ III, even more important than having more than 7 civs in a game.
There is nothing on the Firaxis site that even remotely suggests that the system will not be implemented, so we should cheer up.

	15-01-2001 02:49									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

sorry guys i just dont like the idea. if it were implemented right it might be good but the way you guys put it... sorry

	15-01-2001 05:20									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The resource model is a way of simulating the complex economics of the world we live in. It is much better then the old caravan model, but it must be refined to make sure that it would not require excessive micromanagement. However, if Firaxis comes up with something better and simpler, I would welcome it.

	15-01-2001 05:30									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

AHHH!


This is not a thread about the resource market system! If they're going to put it in, great! But if not, I'm simply offering an alternative of particular event file functions I would like to have.

So young newbie, don't think about it as this system. Think of what I posted as a method of making it LOOK like the game has the system. I just want it for my scenarios for the purposes of waging economic warfare.

	15-01-2001 10:06									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I say again look at the Imperialism 1 market system!!

	15-01-2001 11:52									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've been thread-jacked!

	16-01-2001 09:21									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ok, so nobody has any thoughts specifically on the extra event functions I want? Not anything more about the concept of resources and market system, etc. Just about the events....

	16-01-2001 23:33									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Dom Pedro,

Sim City has a fairly accurate economic model. Maybe you can petition Maxis to create a Sim Nation? I didn't enjoy the overly complex economies of a simulation.

	17-01-2001 01:59									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

poor dom pedro

seems like all the people who no what a "trigger" is are all over looking at the scenario board, and everyone reading over here is completely misunderstanding what you want.

I have yet to build a scenario myself, but I assume that the extra customisibity features will include more powerful event/trigger language, so that at least somee features excuded from the main game can be inserted by scenario builders.

I also think it would be a great if such customisability features could be used to develop a user created "hard-core civver edition"