21-12-2000 06:01									#31
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Hmmm, 'tis sad that I shan't be able to build my own personalised 'panzer' army with which to take over the world. Oh well.

Ata', I couldn't agree more.
I want to see a very detailed representation of history, which means far more units, far more techs, and far less of that ridiculous 1turn=1year nonsense.

	21-12-2000 06:26									#32
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I thought that red cross was supposed to stand for medical aid?

There are tanks that can carry injured men to saftey aren't there? Remember that old Amiga game, Fire Power? I dunno if anyone has played it, but in that game you basicaly chose 3 types of tanks, scorpion was one of them, and all you had to do was kill the opponents tank and rescue your men from his army base, and he had to do the same, was really addictive

	21-12-2000 06:37									#33
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Diablo,

I think we both agree that "Panzer" can mean "Armour", so I think the description of "Panzer Tank" comes down to personal taste. "Panzer" or "Panzer Tank" it doesn't make much difference to me!

On to a few other point's...

Like I have said previously, I think Firaxis are perhap's trying to represent in their Unit's, the first Civ that made effective use of a Unit. Hence the Germans with the Tank.

But this would also apply to the Rifleman that looks a bit like a Musketeer. I'm no expert on this part of history, but if the Rifle was first used effectively in the late 18th Century then what's wrong with depicting the Unit in that time? A Rifle does not have to be of the breech loading variety! Maybe the Musketeer looks like a 16th Century soldier, we just don't know yet.

Incidentely, I love the Soldiers posture. It reminds me of the Sharpe films with Sean Bean, how they used to patrol around ready to fire at any time. I hope the Unit walks around the map in a similar style.

	21-12-2000 09:32									#34
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Firaxis has stated that the artwork is conceptual, NOT in-game. So it may not be that pretty.

Nor does it mean that there is no unit workshop. It just means that if there is one, they put a hell of lot more time into the alteration of the unit picture when the basic unit is changed. I for one would like to see a workshop.

That said, it's nice to see them purdy pictures!

	21-12-2000 09:47									#35
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Freaky-surreal,
full-of-details,
my mind is swiveling on its axial...
professional artwork, THEY ARE!
If this is what WE can expect from the final distributed product; i can't even begin to dream about the Terrain's files and the interface.
True to reality THREE-D for, and exclusively designed for, Civ THREE.
Phalanx is afraid of the painting on the Panzer (No wonder, he's from another era!)
Rifleman can even stare back at you.
Zooming in and out of history on a playing field or should i say, battlefield.

PLEASE, show us the SUBMARINE!

	21-12-2000 11:10									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

These pictures are amazing! I'm sure we ain't seen nothin yet. But I guess this is the beginning. Finally!

I love the theatricality of these designs, the cross between a historical replica and war game "playing piece." I realize these are only conceptual, but I for one applaud the effort to claim authenticity with a more symbolic representation. What's inspiring about these designs, conceptually, is specifically that they are NOT authentic, per se. At least at this stage, Firaxis is consciously playing off the already established mythos of their own game! Brilliant.

	21-12-2000 12:04									#38
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I like what I see.

Now if I just could have them lets say 300dpi 50 by 85 cm big and on paper to hang on my wall, that would be great

About the unit workshop.
I am not at all convinced that it couldn't be used after seeing these pictures. Look at Phalax and Rifelman. Difference is that Rifelman has better wepon, but lacks armor. (OK, I don't know what armor on Rifelman should look like ) Same way we can have all the different tanks.

Happy holidays to all

	21-12-2000 12:35									#39
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First of all, thanks for the news, Firaxis! The pics look great and right now I don't care if they are artwork and not ingame shots. It's a start (and a good one).

About the tank: I think Firaxis named it "Panzer tank" because Civ3 will have more than one tank type; probably an early one and a modern one: the "Panzer" tank and the *modern* (*put whatever else you want here*) tank.
The musketeer-look rifleman points in the same direction: more modern units. We will see probably a new infantry unit between the rifleman and the mechanized infantry.

	21-12-2000 12:41									#40
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Just three pictures and you guys are all going nuts!

Me, I'm waiting for the Civ 3 site to go up finally.

	21-12-2000 14:14									#41
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Nice pictures chaps .. I guess the level of detail will ultimatly depend on the size of the unit .. I personally think you should have a different unit size (level of detail) for whatever screen size you pick .. So a game played in 800x600 will have the same size units as a game played in 1024x768, but the detail will be increased for the later. If you are using polygons, that should be a simple mathematical equation ... not just that, also brings the possibility of zooming in and out in a more realistic way That way, you could hide the detail on distant views, and include it as you get closer.. That would be a revolution almost in the graphical designs of these kind of games.

It is good to see you engaging your customers .. Keep it up.

------------------
"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

	21-12-2000 16:00									#42
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I think the reason for the tank being called Panzer tank is because, as Grumbold has pointed out, it looks almost identical to a Panzer III.

I believe all the german tanks developed during the second world war was called panzer (short for Panzerkampfwagen).

Panzerkampfwagen I (light tank)
Panzerkampfwagen II (light tank)
Panzerkampfwagen III (medium tank)
Panzerkampfwagen IV (medium tank)
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther/Panther II (prototype) (medium heavy tank)
Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger/Tiger II (heavy tank)
Panzerkampfwagen VII Löwe (Super heavy tank, never prod.)
Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus (Super heavy tank)


Got a little carried away there

I really hope there will be several different types of tanks in Civ3, since WW2 scenarioes is my favorite.

	21-12-2000 16:11									#43
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These pictures are great and I hope that they look that good in the final game. As for the workshop I do believe you should upgrade but I dont like the unit workshop idea at all. But theseare great

------------------
I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

	21-12-2000 18:44									#44
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double post
[This message has been edited by Hasdrubal (edited December 21, 2000).]

	21-12-2000 18:45									#45
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Thanks for the pic's, Firaxis!

They look wonderful. Especially the phalanx! Even if they look more like the artwork one will get to see in the civilopedia, rather than the in-game units themselves, this does raise ones hopes for the the quality of the graphics in Civ III. Well done!

And no unit workshop. Hurray!

	21-12-2000 19:51									#46
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Sorry to be such a party-pooper but ...

The red crosses on the tank annoy me! If they're supposed to represent force marking, use a chevron like they did in Dessert Shield/Storm.

	21-12-2000 20:03									#47
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Quite nice, but please remember that it's only concept art. It really doesn't give us any clues at all about what the game will be like. I mean, you can chew the bone they've thrown you for a while if you like, but I think I'll conserve my energy until they give us some more info in a couple of weeks.

Good to see some activity on the Firaxis front, however.

------------------
- MKL
"And a sun that doesn't set but settles" - Augie March
Shameless Plug: http://www.poetic-license.org ............. All welcome.

	21-12-2000 20:46									#48
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I agree with MKL, you poor urchins act like Fagan threw you a crumb to fight over. These are very nice looking units, but I'm assuming that anyone will be able to replace them with custom units (as in the many modpacks we've seen for Civ2). So what difference does it make what the Riflemen and Tank look like? For example, I never play Civ2 with their original units, I always play with the HiRes units. If you don't like those units, create your own or download someone elses mod?

	21-12-2000 20:51									#49
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Well, I have to line up with everyone else who's excited by the pictures.

* wipes up puddle of drool at feet *

We've waited so long for something to be released by Firaxis that anything is greatly appreciated. Truly, they do look great. Can't wait for the site to go online.

And I'm especially looking forward to Civ4. You guys at Firaxis are working on that already, aren't you?

------------------
Frodo lives!

	21-12-2000 21:52									#50
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Ho hum..........the graphics are not the flaw of civ 2, never were, never will be. Once you start playing, this sort of thing flies out of the window anyway. An update on how some new economic or diplomacy models would've got me excited.

However, as long as Firaxis has it's priorities straight, and we see some real improvements in the actual game, improved graphics will still be a welcome change.

They are nice graphics, but I just can't put my excited hat on yet

------------------
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
[This message has been edited by drake (edited December 21, 2000).]

	21-12-2000 23:53									#51
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oops, double post.


[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 21, 2000).]

	22-12-2000 01:05									#54
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Well I can't get that excited about concept art, but I do appreciate the fact that Firaxis is alive. Nice to know the CTP2 team hasn't suceeded in firebombing their HQ yet...

I'm not giving up hope yet, but I do fear for the inclusion of a units workshop. Or at least some amazing alternative. I hated being limited to x amount of units. I always loved the ability to modify your army to adapt to the situation. Why couldn't you build an AAA submarine transport if someone was using planes to keep the sea clear? I doubt you'd see a premade unit like that.

At any rate though.. the game progresses. Can't wait til the official site goes live.

	22-12-2000 01:47									#56
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I'm also a little worried about how the 3d units will look like when scaled down. Hopefully there will be possible to use custom 2d units.

And Diablo, Tiger II = King Tiger

	22-12-2000 02:02									#57
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Bah. Gameplay before graphics. Not that I don't trust Sid & co. to do both..

But I have to say, I prefer 3d units, although the ability to replace them with 2d customer units for mods would give this game an unheard of level of replayability

	22-12-2000 02:15									#58
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I didn't know there were ambulance tanks...

	22-12-2000 02:20									#60
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damn, double post again.
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 21, 2000).]