12-03-2002 21:48									#1
	Why can't I end trades? Tired of ads?

I can't seem to end trades. I have tried clicking all around "active" word and there is no response. Only way I have found is to unselect all for a couple turns. Sometimes does not take after one turn.

It is annoying to be exporting 2 luxuries to a civ that is about ready to attack, especially when they are only giving you 1 luxury.

What am I missing?

	12-03-2002 21:53									#2
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Trades last for a minimum of 20 turns unless you go to war or there is an embargo (I'm not about the exact rules of that one). If you look at the active trades there can be a number beside what you are trading that represents how many turns to go (from 20). If its not there just click on the item you want removed.

	12-03-2002 23:07									#3
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Number besides what you are trading?

All I see is
CivA leader
CivB leader
Trade line between CivA--CivB

There are no trades shown on this screen.
Am I using the wrong screen, the foreign
advisor screen, trades tab, instead of some other screen?

My problem is with trades after 30+ turns I want to end them.

	13-03-2002 00:07									#4
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OK, I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me.

GOTO: Foreign Advisor (F4)
Click on the blurb about new deal
GOTO: Theres a screen under the Dialogue with NEW and Active Tabs (I think you've looked at them)

Click on the active tab
When you do that a list of the trades that are going on -what you're giving and getting in return will pop up in that tab that looks like the trade dialogue i.e.

peace treaty......................................................peace treaty
Silks(8)..................................................................Iron (8)

You both have a peace treaty with each other and you're trading iron and silks. That deal ends in 8 turns.

You can also have something like this

peace treaty.........................................................peace treaty
Silks(8)......................................................................BLANK
Ivory..........................................................................incense

Where you've traded silks for maybe lump sum cash or a tech that ends in 8 turns.

The silks trade cant be ended for eight turns without causing probs with the other civ. War will, I'm not sure if you can embargo.

You're also exchanging Ivory for incense and you can end that one with no probs just click on it like you would if you dont like a particular item in the new trade dialogue. If you can end the deal it will move back under your civ window.

I hope this helps.

Last edited by SpencerH on 13-03-2002 at 00:18

	13-03-2002 19:43									#5
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Not finding any blurb about new deal so have not found new and active tabs only found trades tab and other tab.

	13-03-2002 20:38									#6
	Do people actually use the Foreign Advisor Screen to do trades? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Dealing through the F4 screen? I mean, that must be incredible pain in the butt. Here's what you need to do:

Open up the diplomacy screen (shift-D from the game screen, or click on the tab in the lower-right hand corner marked "D")

Pick the civ you want to talk to, and open up the trade window.

Along the lower portion of the trade screen there are two tabs. "New" allows you to negotiate new deals and is the tab you start on by default. "Active" allows you to view your current deals with that civ and renegotiate old deals once they've expired (by default any deal you make will last until someone kills it by renegotiating). All the terms that are part of the same deal will highlight when you put your mouse over one of the terms, so you can tell what was part of what without having to actually renegotiate.

If a deal is still active, you won't be able to renegotiate it, and there will be a number on the left-hand column in parentheses saying how many turns are left. If there is no number of turns left on the deal, you can renegotiate it, either to change the terms or to cancel the deal entirely. To cancel the trade, just remove all the items from the expired deal and say "Never Mind".

Always be sure to do this before you go to war with a former trading partner. You don't want your rep to take a hit because you violated a long-expired Right Of Passage deal. Also be sure to renegotiate RoPs or deals where you are giving resources away if you expand significantly, you can get better terms for these. But as a general rule, try to let deals that have you on the receiving end of resources go as long as they can under the current conditions if you expand, as trying to renegotiate them will get you WORSE terms.

	13-03-2002 21:04									#7
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quote: Dealing through the F4 screen? I mean, that must be incredible pain in the butt.

F4 opens the diplomacy screen!

	13-03-2002 21:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Trades last for a minimum of 20 turns unless you go to war or there is an embargo (I'm not about the exact rules of that one). If you look at the active trades there can be a number beside what you are trading that represents how many turns to go (from 20). If its not there just click on the item you want removed.

Trades can last as long as you want. The AI gets made when you do it within 20 turns. What happens when it goes over is that the AI DOES NOT want to continue witht the trade, else the trade continues, and YOU need to keep tabs on that.

To end a trade like that, open diplomatic relations with the civ in question. Then goto the active and select a trade that is currently in progress. Then just say never mind or what not and the deal ends. To check this, reload that civ's screen and see what you are trading, the deal in question should be gone. And usualy the Civ in question will ask for the deal again on the next turn.

	13-03-2002 22:40									#9
	No, F4 is the Foreign Advisor Screen Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What I am referring to by the Diplomacy Screen is the dialog that shows up when you press Shift-D, or click on the small square labelled "D" in the lower-right corner of the game screen. That one is MUCH easier to deal with other civs than through the Foreign Advisor.

I NEVER look at the F4 screen unless it's to see the relationship lines between two foreign civs (i.e. who has RoP or MPP with who, who is fighting who, etc.). Trying to use that screen for ANY other purpose I have found to be an incredible pain in the ass.

	13-03-2002 23:40									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: What I am referring to by the Diplomacy Screen is the dialog that shows up when you press Shift-D, or click on the small square labelled "D" in the lower-right corner of the game screen. That one is MUCH easier to deal with other civs than through the Foreign Advisor.

I'll have to take a look when I'm home. I know I've clicked the diplomacy square before, and I dont recall anything special.

	14-03-2002 01:19									#11
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Clicking on the D-square and then a civ takes you to the same screen as F4 then double-clicking the CIV-head.

	14-03-2002 03:05									#12
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I think many of us wish there were easier ways, in-game, to deal with things such as trade.

I think the game designers simplified it pretty weel, but in many situations over-simplified it.

I wish there were a screen where I could just deal with trades, and see at-a-glance who I am trading what with, and for how much longer, and what someone might have to trade to me, and what someone wesle may want from me.

If Japan wanted/needed silks, or iron, I should be able to pop open a screen, and see that fact, and see also how much extra iron I have, who I am trading it with, and for how much longer, and maybe even give Japan a promisary note that in X number of turns, I will trade my extra iron to them.

A sort of committment to commit, or maybe sell them options to have first bid in so many turns. They still may not get the iron, but I would promise them first option when the extra iron I have comes back on the market after re-negotiations show up at the end of the previous trade commitment. Yes, yes, much much too complicated, and the game is about more than trade...

I just make the point that trading is over simplified, for giving being such an important part of happieness, and ultimately productivity.

Oh well...

Simpler game = bigger audience.

	14-03-2002 03:49									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH F4 opens the diplomacy screen!

That's right, but that's also where they put that particular information. For some reason I can't quite fathom, you can't access it from the Trade screen, only the Diplomatic one. Go figure!

I have a feeling though something's odd with that. One time I had a deal for Luxuries with the Japanese that had expired, but there was nothing I could do to cancel it. I tried clicking on it, double clicking, right-clicking, you name it, but I never got an option to renegotiate. I could do so with my peace treaty, but not the Luxury. I finally ended up pillaging the only road connecting us. Does anyone know what the problem might have been, was there something that I missed?

	19-03-2002 20:27									#14
	Mystery finally solved!! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Finally figured out what the problem is.

In the F4 [Diplomacy] screen there are not ONE but TWO apparent controls labeled "Active"

The "Active" control that works is the one at the bottom of the diplomacy table. In the same line as "clear table" and "new"
Guess which one I was not using?

The "Active" control that does not work is the apparent control label on the trades tab on the main Diplomacy screen. To the left of the label is a check box and the label is just a label "-- > Active < --", not a clickable object to access list of active trades.

Firaxis Action Item
Please relabel either the table control object or the label in the main diplomacy screen.

	19-03-2002 20:45									#15
	Re: Mystery finally solved!! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by planetfall The "Active" control that works is the one at the bottom of the diplomacy table. In the same line as "clear table" and "new" Guess which one I was not using?

Yes, I know about that, but there's still something wierd happening. Right now I have the English conducting a Trade Embargo against the French, and even though the 20 turn limit has expired, I can't renegotiate. If I click on it, I get a sound effect like something's happening, but nothing comes up. I can renegotiate my Peace Treaty, but nothing else.

	19-03-2002 20:53									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, then go back to the method I used to end trades before I found the right Active object. On trades tab deselect trade button,
it may take 2 or 3 turns, but by deselecting and/or clearing all you can end the trades. The only real problem with this method is you can't end just one trade. You have to end all and then if want to trade remake the trade agreements.

Sounds like a bug, I never get that because I have disabled sound in my game. {1. no sound card. 2. Play late in day and don't want to disturb family}

I sure hope in 1.18 Firaxis has an easier method to manage trade deals.

	19-03-2002 21:15									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Well, then go back to the method I used to end trades before I found the right Active object. On trades tab deselect trade button, it may take 2 or 3 turns, but by deselecting and/or clearing all you can end the trades. The only real problem with this method is you can't end just one trade. You have to end all and then if want to trade remake the trade agreements. Sounds like a bug, I never get that because I have disabled sound in my game. {1. no sound card. 2. Play late in day and don't want to disturb family} I sure hope in 1.18 Firaxis has an easier method to manage trade deals.

What trade button are you talking about? It sure would be nice if I could figure out how to cancel an agreement, but I'm suspecting I have some sort of bug. As it is now, as soon as I make a deal I'm locked in, until they cancel it at least. It really sucks. It makes me want to avoid any sort of diplomatic/trade action unless absolutely necessary.

	19-03-2002 21:23									#18
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Have to do this from memory, will check tonight.

F4

Select trades tab on folders image at about 2 oclock

Click on X with blue background. It should change to a white box.

{Here I am a bit fuzzy, don't know if we have to select one of the object labels a the bottom of the folder box. Think the labels may be select all and clear all but can't remember as I don't usually use them.}


Close F4 screen.


At first I waited a turn to see if change took effect. Now I go on with one city build order or unit movement and then go back to see if change held. If not, retry. Since I don't have the actions down to a formula, it usually takes several attempts until I get the trade ended.

Hope this helps.

	19-03-2002 23:26									#19
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Planetfall, do you have a mac version?

	19-03-2002 23:36									#20
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Nope, W98, AMD cpu chip. Think it is a 400 but could be a 600 Mhz chip.

	20-03-2002 01:20									#21
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I asked because I dont recall seeing this:

quote: F4 Select trades tab on folders image at about 2 oclock Click on X with blue background. It should change to a white box.

and I thought you might have the mac version

	20-03-2002 01:38									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

See:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3imag...eenshot50.shtml

To the right of Iroquis, are 2 tabs: treaties and trades.

Click on the trades folder and you should see the blue check boxes just as on the shown treaties tab.

	21-03-2002 00:41									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by planetfall See: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3imag...eenshot50.shtml To the right of Iroquis, are 2 tabs: treaties and trades. Click on the trades folder and you should see the blue check boxes just as on the shown treaties tab.

But those don't do anything, they just toggle the relationship lines for trade deals etc between the various civs. They have no impact on the actual deals themselves. The only one that actually does anything is that one at the bottom of that screen you mentioned previously. And for some reason it doesn't work on my system. I'd sure like to know why. There's already so few diplomatic options in the game, and I can't even use what there is, unless I accept the fact I might be stuck with a deal for the rest of the game.

	21-03-2002 02:14									#24
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Bummer, then there are 2 options:

1. don't make short trade deals before 1.18 comes out


2. start a short war and sue for peace soon afterwards.

Wish we had assurance that firaxis regularly trolled the forums for list of discovered bugs. This sounds like a real bug.

I still have not remembered to try and get the list of active trades. By the time I remember it is pass 20 turns and the AI's are mad at me because my score is increasing slightly more than theirs and they drop the trade like a hot potatoe.

	21-03-2002 06:12									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Bummer, then there are 2 options: 1. don't make short trade deals before 1.18 comes out 2. start a short war and sue for peace soon afterwards. Wish we had assurance that firaxis regularly trolled the forums for list of discovered bugs. This sounds like a real bug. I still have not remembered to try and get the list of active trades. By the time I remember it is pass 20 turns and the AI's are mad at me because my score is increasing slightly more than theirs and they drop the trade like a hot potatoe.

Well that's one reason why it's not that big of a deal, the other civs usually drop the deal long before I even think about whether it's expired. This game I'm playing now was classic. I had an MPP and a trade embargo with Germans against the Japanese. Within a turn of war breaking out between me and Japan, Bismarck pulls the plug on everything! Talk about being a loyal ally!