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Hurricane
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Arctic Hill
May 2001
time: 07:18
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A builder strategy is, in fact, still possible under v1.17, but only on the lower difficulty levels (all except Emperor and Deity). I have used it successfully in two games, one on Regent and one on Monarch.
A successful builder strategy depends on having lots of cash for rush building (I never pop rush). How do you accumulate lots of cash when the popular tech-whoring strat no longer works?
1) Have maximum tax for discovery in 40 turns (90% or 100% with one scientist in a city). This gives a good steady income, but is not nearly enough.
2) Make contact with everybody. Being expansionist helps. Knowing all civs means you get full advantage of tech devaluation.
3) Head for writing as soon as possible. Establish embassies with everyone immediately. Sign ROPs with everybody - the AI will pay you very nice amounts for it. Youīll only get lump sum so remember to renew every 20 turns.
4) Found cities close the neighbors (2 tiles in between). This is needed for successfully make the neighboring cities defect.
5) Make every effort to get control over all kinds of resources. The AI still pays huge amounts for resources it needs (especially Iron).
6) Buy enemy workers always when you get the chance. Build a harbor and roads to all your neighbors as soon as possible.
7) Donīt buy techs before everyone else has it. Waiting 2 turns to be the last one to buy a tech instead of the first can easily save you 500 gold.
8) After writing, head for Monarchy. With all your gold, start rushning temples and libraries. At this stage the AI has usually no buildings in his cities, and soon the neighboring cities will start to defect to you.
9) Donīt ever declare war on anybody. This screws all your chances of getting money out of ROPs. Youīll get into a war sooner or later anyway (never forget to have a strong and up to date army).
10) Head for democracy. At this stage you can usually start to research techs, too. Sell techs to AIs who can afford to pay much for it. Always try to keep the AI poor, so that they canīt rush their own improvements.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:18
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Ok, I'll chime in. Here's what I usually do:
I go for the Great Library, and my strategy revolves around getting it. There are other ways to go about it, but this is the one I like (Monarch level):
I beeline for literature, while using the Pyramids as a shield holder in my best city (probably my capitol). If I'm not industrious, I buy masonry. Anyway, I expand as rapidly as possible, building temples in my new cities, with only a minimal military. As soon as I get literature, I build libraries in my core cities (and start them in the far away ones, in order to save shields for the courthouses to come). After discovering literature, I beeline for currency. The Great Library will be finished before I discover it, and the GL will get me everything BUT construction, currency, republic and monarchy. I will switch my outlying cities to courthouses (unless, of course, they are so far out that they're not worth it).
If I am blessed with a coastal city with low corruption, I'll take a shot at the Colossus. It is a wonder that the AI often neglects, and it doesn't take too many shields to build. Having a decent coastal city early on is a matter of luck, however.
Anyway, upon getting currency, I build marketplaces everywhere. The more overall money you have, the more you can afford to spend on science. I will also gain construction and monarchy from the GL, while I research republic. Large cities build colloseums, and my capitol starts on the Hanging Gardens while my best production city (other than the cap) starts on a "palace." After getting republic, I switch gov'ts and start researching feudalism. The capitol switches from Hanging G. to Sun Tzu... then I beeline for Theology and the #2 city gets switched to either Sun Tzu or the Sistine, depending on which city will complete its wonder first (I want the Sistine done first - it's more important to me). Meanwhile, other cities are building cathedrals and aqueducts and such things. I now normally go for Engineering, and if the AI isn't breathing down my neck, Invention too, before going for Education. If I can get Leo's, fine, otherwise, no biggie. Shields will be saved, however, for Copernicus. I often discover Education myself, rather than getting it from the Library. I want the get those universities built, and I want to get to Astronomy quickly, for Copernicus. After Astronomy, it's Banking and Economics - Adam Smith's is ESSENTIAL. Banks are built just about everywhere (there are exceptions to every rule, but I pretty much build 'em in any city that can do it in under 25 turns), and Wall Street is built asap. If I feel that I have the time (and a spare city to build Bach's), I will research Music Theory. Then over to Theory of Gravity (often the AI will go up the other tech line, getting gunpowder ahead of me, and I will buy that from them). I will also often buy democracy. If the AI wants to research Free Artistry and build Shake's, more power to 'em, I'm workin' on the railroad.
If all of the above goes according to plan, I will be well situated to grab a good tech lead in the Industrial Age (basically, I get my railroads and factories online, go for ToE, which gets me to Electronics, build Hoover, and then backfill).
It tends to work well, but it requires that several things go right. An early AI attack will wreak havoc on this strategy. Also, you need contact with several civs (2 at the very least) for the GL to work properly. Hopefully, your peaceful expansion will get you some luxuries. At the very least 2 - and if that's the case, you'd better have a lot of those 2 so you can trade - preferably 3. More than 3 local luxuries is excellent. I normally do my fighting in the medieval and industrial periods. A Middle Ages golden age is great for building all those wonders and expensive improvements, not to mention finally building something resembling an army.
I find that the civs that fit best with this strategy are the Babylonians and Egyptians. I wouldn't use this with the Chinese or Zulu, for example, because it doesn't play to their strengths.
Anyway, that's how I do it.
-Arrian
p.s. I've taken to not setting my science low at the start - I leave it 50/50 for a while.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:18
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Hurricane. Yes I read your post, so I know about your level.
My observations on your points.
1) At higher levels (all levels?) set science to 0 once you have made contact with 3 or more civs. You can buy for cheaper than you can research.
2) Contact is paramount. It is more valuable than tech because it makes all tech cheaper.
3) I haven't tried *renting* RoP. I'll give it a go. Nice tip if it works. I usually find the AI needs money to go into RoP in my games.
4) At higher levels the AI will build temples and other culture bulidings more quickly. You just might find some of your encroachers going over to the other side.
5) Resources go without saying. They are an integral part of the game at any level.
6) Buy workers? They'll sell? Trade links go with the importance of resources. They are vital.
7) Being the last to acquire tech, for deep discounts, is sound. Only strain yourself once you have determined it is time to attain leadership, then max the slider and don't look back. Usually good around the early Industrial age (at higher levels).
8) Republic for peace. Monarchy for war. Razing has hideous effects on a Republic.
9) Declare war on who you need to when you need to. Just don't screw the AI when you do it. If you have agreed to trade resources, do not declare war before the deal expires. You have to cancel it sometimes, it might not expire by itself at the end of 20 turns. If you declare war on an AI that you have any deals going with you are bad, bad, bad man. No deals, no bad.
10) Democracy is great, so long as you can keep your cities out of revolt due to war-weariness. Communism has it's place, but probably not in a builder strategy.
Salve
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Hurricane
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Arctic Hill
May 2001
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Hurricane. Yes I read your post, so I know about your level.
My observations on your points.
1) At higher levels (all levels?) set science to 0 once you have made contact with 3 or more civs. You can buy for cheaper than you can research.
2) Contact is paramount. It is more valuable than tech because it makes all tech cheaper. |
Very true.
quote:
3) I haven't tried *renting* RoP. I'll give it a go. Nice tip if it works. I usually find the AI needs money to go into RoP in my games.
9) Declare war on who you need to when you need to. Just don't screw the AI when you do it. If you have agreed to trade resources, do not declare war before the deal expires. You have to cancel it sometimes, it might not expire by itself at the end of 20 turns. If you declare war on an AI that you have any deals going with you are bad, bad, bad man. No deals, no bad. |
I think your reputation suffers even if you declare a war "honestly", without breaking any treaties. This might be the reason the AI wonīt pay you for ROPs. Also, if the AI plans to attack you, they wonīt sign ROPs. Thatīs why you need a relatively strong army, so that the AI instead picks easier targets.
quote:
4) At higher levels the AI will build temples and other culture bulidings more quickly. You just might find some of your encroachers going over to the other side.
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True. This is what makes a builder strategy much more difficult (I wonīt say impossible) on the highest difficulties.
quote:
6) Buy workers? They'll sell? |
The AI sells workers for 25-30 gold (lump sum). This is cheap considering you save 1 pop point, get a maintenance-free worker and that the AI used up one pop point for a measly amount of gold (which you of course quickly get back from him by trading).
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DrFell
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I've got one good tip for builder strategies on deity level - don't use them.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:18
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I have found that if I explore, but avoid making contact during the early game, I have a better chance of expanding my empire. It seems like the minute an AI makes contact with me, they start pushing their cities towards me.
Delaying contact doesn't seem to be a problem. I can usually trade and catch up with the other Civs.
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Hurricane
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Arctic Hill
May 2001
time: 07:18
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I tried my strategy on Emperor, and, as expected, it was much harder. I finally managed to do it on a standard map, where much of the world was water. The problem with large maps is that the AI is much better than the human player to expand, and that luxuries and resources are much more scattered around. This means that you often end up with only 1 or perhaps 2 luxuries on a huge map, while you easily can get 3 on a small or standard map.
The ROP-selling strategy didnīt work, either. It seems the extra units the AI gets at the beginning makes them feel so strong that they wonīt pay for ROPs. This makes it harder for you to keep up technologically. In the earlier games, I got the tech lead during the medieval ages, but in this game only during the early industrious ages.
The failed ROP-selling instead meant that I had no problem declaring war on the Romans (5 cities), which my Mounted Warriors had no problem taking out. I didnīt get any leaders, though. This meant I got the FP rather late in the game.
I am now 4 techs ahead of the other civs (researching combustion), who have been fighting each other for some time. I have a steady income of about +0 ... +100 when at 100% science. Iīll probably take out the Americans when I get tanks and then head for a space-race victory.
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alexman
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Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
The AI sells workers for 25-30 gold (lump sum). This is cheap considering you save 1 pop point, get a maintenance-free worker and that the AI used up one pop point for a measly amount of gold (which you of course quickly get back from him by trading). |
From the AI perspective, Why would he ever trade you one of his workers for 20-30 gold in the first place, especially at the beginning of the game?  I think I understand how the game calculates the worker's trade cost, but I also think it's flawed.
A worker costs 10 shields and one population point. A city of size less than 6 with a plus two food surplus takes 10 turns to regenerate that population point. if we say that during those ten turns an average tile with two food, one shield, and one commerce would have been worked, that's another 10 shields and 10 commerce lost.
So the AI trades you 10 commerce and 20 shields for about 25 gold. That would have been fair enough, except it doesn't take into account the fact that after the 10 turns that it takes him to replace the population, that's still one population point less than it would have otherwise been (thus losing more production and commerce until the city can no longer grow), not to mention the fact that in 10 turns he could have made several tile improvements that would have further benefited his economy.
Considering all the ridiculous deals the AI gives you for tech and resource trading, the value it places on workers seems out of character! 
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13-03-2002 17:43
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