14-01-2001 06:30									#1
	Borrowing Money Got spare money?

When you civ runs out of money you should be able to borrow money from another civ or the
aforementioned Black Market people. If you cannot pay it back in x turns, you must start
selling off improvements.

After the building of the UN, you should be able to borrow money from the pool of money that
comes in every year from each country that is a member.

	14-01-2001 09:30									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Like in SMAC. You can borrow money from other civ and it would be a severe diplomatic penalty if you fail to pay back - not only towards the one who lend you (or at least no civ will lend you untill you paid the old debts. The sum should be negociable and the interest rate should depend on the regard of that civ towards you.

	14-01-2001 14:30									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

An excellent idea..

Perhaps later in the game, you could borrow money from an IMF or a World Bank. Loans would be subject to certain conditions (enact a specific economy model, government, open this many trade routes etc)

You would have to pay back, and each turn you would pay a prenegotiated interest. If you default, you could be bailed out by some other civ but your reputation would suffer and so would your economy for a couple of turns...

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	18-01-2001 14:25									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have always found it to be a nuicence in SMAC. One rarely borrows, but is often asked to lend. When you do lend, you have no idea if your being paid back. I would also lose count of the number of turns the debt still had to run. It really didn't add anything extra to the game.

Sean.

	19-01-2001 00:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Great idea!

	19-01-2001 03:55									#6
	Tired of ads?

I do not like the idea of borrowing money. Unless the AI was done very carefully to take borrowing into account, it would just be another tool a human player could use better than the AI to gain an advantage. And most human players are good enough that they don't need any more advantages.

That said, I suppose it could be put in as an option, 'allow borrowing', with higher intrest rates (for human players) at higher difficulty levels.

But at god level, how would you fit your first born into the computer?


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"Treat each day as if it were your last. Eventually, you'll be right."

	19-01-2001 06:12									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm concerned about too much high finance, like borrowing with variable lending rates, as well. The opportunities for arbitrage with 16 civilizations (if that is how many they implement) are going to increase exponentially as the economic system increases in complexity. For example, if CivA will lend me 500 creds at 5% because we've got a decent relationship and I don't need the cash that badly (presuming those would be factors Firaxis builds into the AI), and CivB, which is cash strapped due to expansionist tendencies, needs cash, I can then lend the 500 on to CivB for presumably a substantially higher rate (say 10%). C'est voila, suddenly I'm earning 5% on CivA's money. That is just a simple example of what I'm talking about, but I find it hard to believe that Firaxis will want to build an AI that is decent at the arbitrage game (eg - taking advantages of varying prices for goods or services - in this case lending services - in order to profit from those price differences). I've got no beef with borrowing at a fixed interest rate, but once arbitrage possibilities enter the game, Firaxis will have to work overtime to make the AI a decent arbitrager. I'd rather they spent that time making the AI a decent diplomat and able to make some intelligent unit deployment decisions.

[This message has been edited by Echinda (edited January 18, 2001).]

	19-01-2001 06:41									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This borrowing could be good and bad... If you dont have enough money to pay back in installments- then your improvements are pawned.

This allows you to make rush buys when you are losing in the modern age (UN) and in the ancient era (Bandit Nation)