14-03-2002 22:35									#1
	MAP - Water World Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

this map is like a scenario i did in civ ii. but in civ ii you could actually start with settlers in galleys (i had to allow galleys to traverse the oceans or the game was very short )

for civ iii we start on tiny islands (2 or 3 cities) with no strategic resources and 1 luxury. map is 180x180. suffice it to say there is a lot of ocean out there. i won't be posting a screen shot and you should play the first time without seeing the map so you don't have that advantage. and it is fun to discover the map while playing.

here are the changes i made to the scenario:

research limits = 2-24
golden age = 30
town = 8
city = 16
barbarian basic = swordsman
barbarian advanced= musketman
barbarian naval unit = caravel
tax collector = 2 gold

i made the barbarians tougher but they don't have camps on the starting islands. you meet them later. i don't know how this one plays because i can't remove the image of the map from my head without fairly risky surgery. I would be very interested to know how it plays.

Attachment: waterworld.zip
This has been downloaded 572 time(s).

	15-03-2002 00:32									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I like the pics...

	19-03-2002 09:04									#3
	I like water world maps, but Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This map is lacking in one major thing, but I quess seaing how it is water world it wouldn't be there anyway, land. I prefer to play on a homeland in a scenario of this size with at least as much land as there is in your promised land. There should be at least a little bit more land out there to make people like the jaguar warriors not so much of and annoying advesary early on in the game. I found the jaguar used effectivly can conquer such a small map with so few cities before any of their offensive units are stronger than a warrior do to lack of iron and horses early on.

Also just out of curiosity, i didn't get this far in your game, but will a harbor just with mapmaking allow trade over the ocean. I'm not sure how that is treated or if it is a spiculation in the rules you have set up.

I also don't like playing on maps with altered rules, but in a map of this size I can make an exception. I just feel to much like im cheating when I alter the rules.

	20-03-2002 02:16									#4
	Re: I like water world maps, but Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1) lack of land: as you correctly post, this is the point of the scenario. there is little land and resources but the mythical land of resources is "out there" somewhere in that huge desert of ocean. (the movie could have been good but failed to deliver anything... but that's another story). creating larger for resource-filled homelands would a) use up more ocean b) cause little reason to seek out other lands c) not be true to the "water world" scenario. this world also keeps the number of cities built low and that creates an entirely different strategy.

2) jaguar warriors (or overwhelming the ai before even arriving at the resource-laden land. this is why i posted the map here... so people would play and report problems with it. it would appear that you think this could happen but have not tested it. i assumed when making the map that this could be a problem so i separated the home islands by ocean squares. while you can attempt to cross these squares with galleys and caravels, you will incur losses. also, even if you capture your nearest neighbor's island, you will only have 4-5 cities to build your forces. i assumed this would slow military domination enough so that some ai civs could discover magnetism and colonize.
i realize that having a close neighbor with better military could be a problem for the human player, too. seems like this would just mean a little different playing tactics to avoid a military confrontation too early. part of the reason to create scenarios is to create new problems that need new solutions.

3) harbors and trade. it is my understanding that you cannot trade over ocean squares until you have vessels to travel over them (magnetism/galleons). same is true for sea squares, you must have discovered astonomy (caravels). i have not changed these rules in the scenario.

4) rule changes. the rules are meant to be changed for different scenarios. i have made changes that i think enhance the game play somewhat and speed up the game, too. (in this scenario, in particular, it could take a long time to start exploring without a little tech boost) it is possible to make changes that make it to easy to defeat the ai and i may have done that. again, that is why it is here. i am waiting for feedback on how the games pan out. was it too easy? was it too hard? was it fun? was it different? was it as pitiful as the movie? i hope not but with enough constructive feedback, the game might be improved. or it may be cast aside as unworkable.

thanks for responding. let me know how your games turn out.