09-04-2002 16:55									#31
	Inflate your Upload Space

And Markus, we were equal on the pg plus I rarely build Wonders - they are dependencies for the weak LOL

BTW We both wanted to continue but the others dropped out.

	09-04-2002 17:02									#32
	Host Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

We need a host that is not Markus

Can you host DD?

	09-04-2002 22:38									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by deity And Markus, we were equal on the pg plus I rarely build Wonders - they are dependencies for the weak LOL BTW We both wanted to continue but the others dropped out.

LOL i would have had navigation and bachs and leo's in a few turns. I must have opened at least 40 huts on that map, i didn't research one tech on my own. With the modification to ship movements etc there is no way you could have caught up.


I don't want to host since i move the fastest. DD is the last person you want hosting.

	09-04-2002 23:03									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by deity And Markus, we were equal on the pg plus I rarely build Wonders - they are dependencies for the weak LOL BTW We both wanted to continue but the others dropped out.

I don't think there is a single person in the world other then you that would consider our civs even.

	10-04-2002 03:45									#35
	ROTFLMAO! Support Apolyton

Well, I think these stats speak for themsleves!

Attachment: realpgdemogs.jpg
This has been downloaded 155 time(s).

	10-04-2002 03:51									#36
	Colours Got spare money?

Incidentally, for the clour blind like me, the Markus yellow is just on top of the DEITIAN blueish (?) colour!!!

The next civ was Carnide's German blue...

Hydey picked up Bakunine's red civ.

War4ever started the white civ.

Agharta was the Americans.

Zylka was the Hydeyshans!!

	10-04-2002 05:00									#37
	Put an end to popups!

I'm on 56k modem and cant get ICQ to work on my machine, so you probably dont want me to host - but I will if necessary it really doesnt matter to me.

I'd still like to firm up rules.

MY preference would be RAHS rules except for:

Land size (we need bigger), barbs (I prefer none), I dont like ship chaining (seems like a loophole) - if possible I would like a no huts game (they're all about luck anyways)

My preference would be - build whatever wonders you want/can (even if markus gets them all). No gifting between civs of anything (especially units and cities) although that might not be in the spirit of a diplo game

Other questions: is this a random map game? are we using standard units only? are we starting this thurs eve/fri am


We should really try and get in a chat room somewhere and talk this out at the same time, otherwise we could spend months just setting the game up

	10-04-2002 07:54									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

what time thursdays is this game.....EST PST CST...all these time zones are different.....whats wrong with markus hosting? the faster the better....

let me know ASAP about start times...i ca'nt start any earlier than 4pm PST which is 7pm EST or 6 pm CST just for the record

	10-04-2002 08:10									#39
	8pm USA EDT Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

10am Aussie start on Fri morning is looking about right.

War4ever says he could host

	10-04-2002 08:27									#40
	Settings and Rules: Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Customise World:

Normal 50x80 Map OR BIGGER says DD - I'm happy with bigger YES! Say, 60x90?
Normal landmass, varied terrain, wet, cool, 4 billion yrs, Deity level, 7 civs
Roving Bands OR NONE says DD - I agree!
No huts says DD - I agree! But need to make it a scn?
Std Rules
1x1x

ONE Wonder per civ IS FUNNER AND DIFFERENT BUT I'M EASY!
NO Alliances IS BETTER OTHERWISE TWO MAIN BLOCS DEVELOP
NO Tech trading IS A BETTER CHALLENGE IMHO>>>
ONLY capture one undefended city per turn pre-1000BC (per civ)
ONLY capture 3 cities per turn per civ thereafter
Ceding units OK, BUT NO double moves - HAPPY TO NOT ALLOW CEDING UNITS COS IT IS SUSS
No City bribe
Unit bribe OK

All tricks acceptable in Rah Rules are OK - like IRB is OK, etc
All the cheats not accepted in Rah rules NOT OK - NO caraporting, etc

You can't ask another civ to go to war on someone else to avoid revolution

Shop chaining is normally OK and unless out voted I say keep it in

	10-04-2002 09:29									#41
	Re: ROTFLMAO! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by deity Well, I think these stats speak for themsleves!

The PG is meaningless.

I had 7 wonders and 8 more cities then you. You just happened to celebrate before i did.

I would have killed everyone in that game with no problems.

However had this been king, and you where more familier with using trade and building up a huge empire, i would have been in serious trouble.. It is way easier to outbuild a civ on king if you don't build any wonders.

	10-04-2002 09:36									#42
	Re: Settings and Rules: Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by deity Customise World: Normal 50x80 Map OR BIGGER says DD - I'm happy with bigger YES! Say, 60x90? Normal landmass, varied terrain, wet, cool, 4 billion yrs, Deity level, 7 civs Roving Bands OR NONE says DD - I agree! No huts says DD - I agree! But need to make it a scn? Std Rules 1x1x ONE Wonder per civ IS FUNNER AND DIFFERENT BUT I'M EASY! NO Alliances IS BETTER OTHERWISE TWO MAIN BLOCS DEVELOP NO Tech trading IS A BETTER CHALLENGE IMHO>>> ONLY capture one undefended city per turn pre-1000BC (per civ) ONLY capture 3 cities per turn per civ thereafter Ceding units OK, BUT NO double moves - HAPPY TO NOT ALLOW CEDING UNITS COS IT IS SUSS No City bribe Unit bribe OK All tricks acceptable in Rah Rules are OK - like IRB is OK, etc All the cheats not accepted in Rah rules NOT OK - NO caraporting, etc You can't ask another civ to go to war on someone else to avoid revolution Shop chaining is normally OK and unless out voted I say keep it in

1. So no one can build apollo's? assuming everyone gets a wonder before then
2. If 2 civs attack you and take six cities in one turn your not allowed to fight back?
3. I have yet to play in a game where there weren't friendly tech stealing deals.

	10-04-2002 14:10									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Regarding Markus points:

quote: 1. So no one can build apollo's? assuming everyone gets a wonder before then

Apollo must always be possible in a diplo game, in addition to any other Wonders built.

quote: 2. If 2 civs attack you and take six cities in one turn your not allowed to fight back?

Not sure what you're thinking here?
You can take 3 cities from any civ in one turn, ie 3 cities from 6 other civs in one go if you can!

quote: 3. I have yet to play in a game where there weren't friendly tech stealing deals.

You may as well have tech trading then.

It's such a stupid thing to minimise tech trading but allow friendly stealing! How absurd. I personally thought it would be an interesting challenge to totally rely on your own tech tree, except for conquest acquired techs.

But if everyone wants this friendly tech stealing we may as well have tech trading which will then form tech alliances and then you may as well allow alliances anyway... this has caused problems in many other games and it was just a thought to try and free up the world from huge blocs that seem to solidify for most of the game. That's a bit boring now. But I'll go with the flow...

	10-04-2002 14:24									#44
	Re: Re: ROTFLMAO! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by markusf The PG is meaningless. I had 7 wonders and 8 more cities then you. You just happened to celebrate before i did. I would have killed everyone in that game with no problems. However had this been king, and you where more familier with using trade and building up a huge empire, i would have been in serious trouble.. It is way easier to outbuild a civ on king if you don't build any wonders.

Your earlier post said:

quote: I don't think there is a single person in the world other then you that would consider our civs even.

The stats I posted are what most folks here use to guage each others civ and any fair assessment makes us very equal in that particular game.

It was your chouce to build useless Wonders. You can say all the "would haves" you like cos we all can say that:
Like I was about to get Eng and Democ first with stacks of caras landing in Hydeyshan land... blah blah ....and I'm better than you -you oversized Canadian big mouth... LOL

I was going to write a whole lot of ego stuff but can't be bothered

But I can be bothered to post a poll

	10-04-2002 16:32									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude ...edit... MY preference would be RAHS rules except for: Land size (we need bigger), ....edit... is this a random map game? are we using standard units only? are we starting this thurs eve/fri am

I just tried a few bigger than normal maps and I think they are too big, Games with Normal or smaller maps stand a better chance of finishing...
let's stick to normal but maybe use large landmass AND continents?

It is a random map, as per the settings to be agreed here, that War4 is organising thru a 3rd party to ensure that all starts are OK and to wipe huts if agreed.
No time to create a scn with other units BUT I do love that stuff

I'd like to hear from the others about the tech thingies, alliances and Wonders too...

Hoping to start this Thurs night at 8pm USA EDT and play for about 3 hours+

	10-04-2002 20:26									#46
	Re: Re: Re: ROTFLMAO! Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by deity Your earlier post said: The stats I posted are what most folks here use to guage each others civ and any fair assessment makes us very equal in that particular game. It was your chouce to build useless Wonders. You can say all the "would haves" you like cos we all can say that: Like I was about to get Eng and Democ first with stacks of caras landing in Hydeyshan land... blah blah ....and I'm better than you -you oversized Canadian big mouth... LOL I was going to write a whole lot of ego stuff but can't be bothered But I can be bothered to post a poll

I am truely at a loss for words, this is by no means equal. No one uses the PG to guage a civs power. The pg is nothing more then a population/city count indicator.

Here are the straight facts, i fail to see how these 2 civs are equal???

Diety 18 cities, 1 wonder GW, 19 techs.
Markus 24 cities, pyramid, HG, GL, Sun Tu,lighthouse,marco polo, magellans. 29 techs

	11-04-2002 05:00									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I work until 8pm est so i couldnt play until 9 (8:30 at the earliest)

I say no "friendly" tech stealing. Either learn the tech, steal it legitimately (we'll just have to have gentlemen's agreement on this) or get it thru conquest is my preference.

I vote for no limit on wonders.

I'm OK with the city conquest rules deity outlined.

If war is hosting he can reach me on AIM or Yahoo IM or we could meet in the zone.

	11-04-2002 12:43									#48
	Got spare money?

No tech stealing, friendly or not - agreed
No alliances - agreed
1 wonder per civ - agreed
No huts - agreed

	11-04-2002 22:34									#49
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No tech stealing, friendly or not - agreed
No alliances - agreed (although this won't stop people)
1 wonder per civ - agreed
No huts - agreed
No tech trading - agreed


If alliances are band, how can you justify unit gifting?

I vote against the city thing.

Last edited by markusf on 12-04-2002 at 03:26

	12-04-2002 02:32									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

why no tech stealing....its an act of espionage which generally means war....seems perfect for a diplo game????


one wonder per civ....sure thats fine....can you build another if your city is destroyed ?

no alliances...haha sure OFFICIALLY lol unnofficially...give me a break

city conquest..fine..

no huts ..fine

	12-04-2002 04:30									#51
	Zylka to replace Winzity who cannot make it Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No tech stealing, friendly or not - agreed
No alliances - agreed
1 wonder per civ - agreed
No huts - agreed

is the consensus I think....

Dang and Fox are setting up maps we can use without huts.

We'll use Dang's with War as the host.

If there's a problem we'll use Foxes....

We have so far:

DeityDude1 (got him now on AIM)
deity
Markus
War4ever
Berzerker
Zylka

all confirmed in the last few minutes or recently...

	12-04-2002 04:35									#52
	Start in One hour - 8:30pm USA EDT Enter the AD-FREE zone

DD is driving home shortly!

	12-04-2002 05:33									#53
	Got spare money?

No empty city capture recapture to trade techs crap either. It's a far cry from what I expect from this group, but I have seen it happen before

	12-04-2002 10:53									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Good solid session tonight. A few observations;

A - Markus is a broken record
B - For the first time, Deity was heard telling someone else to speed up
C - I'm winning

That is all.

	12-04-2002 11:08									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

shame i missed out....with all the bickering about settings...i figured we wouldn't agree on stuff tonite.....therefore i watched the hockey game...equally entertaining i suppose...

	12-04-2002 11:22									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Zylka Good solid session tonight. A few observations; A - Markus is a broken record B - For the first time, Deity was heard telling someone else to speed up C - I'm winning That is all.

LOL i said one thing in the chat, i said 7 cities is better then 9 cities in early rep because you have no roiting citizens... I could care less weather you choose to believe me or not.

point C, You winning according to the PG The game is still early and maybe DD will take his 50 units and kick your ass. I don't think anyone can say they are winning until the first few wonders are built.

	12-04-2002 13:12									#57
	Thanks for nothing War :( Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by War4ever shame i missed out....with all the bickering about settings...i figured we wouldn't agree on stuff tonite.....therefore i watched the hockey game...equally entertaining i suppose...

How rude are you War?

You agreed to host and have a save file ready to go. You didn't post that you wouldn't be playing; in fact you promised me you'd be here.

So no thanks to you we eventually got the game underway and it's looking like a good one.

Thanks to Dangime for standing in and organising a save file at the last minute.

You really suck War. I'm furious.

Here's one of War's last icq's to me:

quote: oh ok...no said i couldnt' play i promise not to bail this game...i give you my word

What a joke.

And then you nonchalantly post here after the event as if it's no big deal... I can't get over it.

	12-04-2002 22:00									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

ok Deity i understand why you feel that way.....and thats fair enough...

my bad for thinking this game was actually going to get off to a good start....

cheers and have fun

	13-04-2002 00:49									#59
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by markusf point C, You winning according to the PG The game is still early and maybe DD will take his 50 units and kick your ass. I don't think anyone can say they are winning until the first few wonders are built.

Yeah pg is a different tone than the rest of the game, but I'm surprised my standing given the cramped plot of land I started out with. It looks like I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Deity Dude looks to be doing really well.

DD, we need to talk in game

	13-04-2002 03:22									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

heh......I should have improved the pensula I got.

Even my lowly civ has a plan to continue though