16-03-2002 22:26									#1
	removing the non-upgradable units Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Late in the game when I get advanced flght and modern armour, etc.. Obselete units like calvary, jet fighter and bomber are still on the list despite a more advanced unit taking its place. What Civ3 needs is the workshop from SMAC so that the player can remove obselete units from the build list. It would also be cool if in the game we could put together a few different variants of one unit.

	16-03-2002 23:07									#2
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That would be great.

I haven't played SMAC much so I don't know how that works, but I'd like to be able to choose myself what units/buildings should be on the list, this means (for my case) that the nuclear plants wont be on the building list (since I never built them anyway )

	16-03-2002 23:16									#3
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having a swordsman on the build list when you have mch inf. is just.......

you could upgrade it in the editor, but, should we really have to do this?

	16-03-2002 23:47									#4
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I agree that we should be able to remove cavalry and swordsmen etc. from the build list if we so choose. I guess at least we only see the highest evolutionary unit in the chain.

I disagree with the return of the unit workshop. I thought that while it added to the sci-fi quality of smax, i found it to be quite irritating having to update every unit type with a new discovery, and by the time I usually built a prototype for a weapon, the next advance had come along and yadda yadda. Also, it worked well becuase the weapons and armors were based.on high technology-I can see replacing a laser with a particle impactor on whatever, but I can't see adding a tank's weaponry onto a mounted unit (ok, extreme analogy, i know)

Though, it would be nice to be able to add certain qualities into units like AA or anti-horse etc, but I think that it is better for a civ-game to have units that have inherent skills, rather than tacking them on to anything. (though I did enjoy the aircraft-based colony pods)
Of course, I guess we don't even have that for now

	16-03-2002 23:50									#5
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This is really easy to do. Just make the unit that you want to disappear upgrade to another unit, but don't give the unit the upgrade ability. For example, say you want Cavalry to become obsolete when you get Tanks, but you don't want Cavalry to upgrade into Tanks. In the editor, got to Cavalry in the Units tab, select Tanks in the upgrade box, but leave Upgrade in the abilities box unchecked. Now Cavalry will disappear from the build list when you get Tanks, but you can't upgrade them to Tanks.

	16-03-2002 23:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker This is really easy to do. Just make the unit that you want to disappear upgrade to another unit, but don't give the unit the upgrade ability. For example, say you want Cavalry to become obsolete when you get Tanks, but you don't want Cavalry to upgrade into Tanks. In the editor, got to Cavalry in the Units tab, select Tanks in the upgrade box, but leave Upgrade in the abilities box unchecked. Now Cavalry will disappear from the build list when you get Tanks, but you can't upgrade them to Tanks.

Ah, great tip, this also serves the added bonus of returning the cavalry to the build menu if you run out of rubber or oil, right? good idea, will implement right away

	17-03-2002 00:03									#7
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DOESN'T WORK!

You could still upgarde those units with SHIFT-U

	17-03-2002 00:10									#8
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quote: Originally posted by player1 DOESN'T WORK! You could still upgarde those units with SHIFT-U

I guess, then what is required is a little self-restraint if this method is to be used

	17-03-2002 00:19									#9
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I guess, then what is required is a little self-restraint if this method is to be used

Or having no problem with AI upgarding Cavalry to Tank.

	17-03-2002 00:25									#10
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Or having no problem with AI upgarding Cavalry to Tank.

True, I wouldn't have a problem with AI doing that. the more challenge the better, eh? and this would make it more challenging on levels where they AI doesn't get extreme advantages.

	17-03-2002 00:35									#11
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That would also be an incentive for the AI to actually get rid of its oblosete units (through upgrading). It is incredibly tiring to see them counterattack my Modern Armor with Cavalry. Especially when they're mixing in Stealth Bomber runs.

	17-03-2002 01:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker This is really easy to do. Just make the unit that you want to disappear upgrade to another unit, but don't give the unit the upgrade ability. For example, say you want Cavalry to become obsolete when you get Tanks, but you don't want Cavalry to upgrade into Tanks. In the editor, got to Cavalry in the Units tab, select Tanks in the upgrade box, but leave Upgrade in the abilities box unchecked. Now Cavalry will disappear from the build list when you get Tanks, but you can't upgrade them to Tanks.

The only problem with this is that you can still upgrade using the Shift-U command. So your only real choices are to upgrade the unit, or have useless units appear in the build list. I prefer upgrading myself.

	17-03-2002 01:45									#13
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is it only the Shift-U that works, and not U or upgrade button? If it is then i think its a bug with the editor and interface, and the AI wont upgrade them.

	17-03-2002 01:50									#14
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That would also be an incentive for the AI to actually get rid of its oblosete units (through upgrading). It is incredibly tiring to see them counterattack my Modern Armor with Cavalry. Especially when they're mixing in Stealth Bomber runs.

I'm frequently playing korn's blitz mod, with cavalry upgrading to tanks. This feature may not be extremely 'realistic', but so far it is one of the changes that really improve the AI's performance. (And I also enjoy the less cluttered build menu.)

	17-03-2002 02:10									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I kind of disagree with converting them to Tanks myself. I think it would be to overpowering to suddenly have a mass of them through upgrading. I've chosen Marines in my game.

	17-03-2002 03:05									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Willem I kind of disagree with converting them to Tanks myself. I think it would be to overpowering to suddenly have a mass of them through upgrading. I've chosen Marines in my game.

If I am the first civ to get Motorized Transportation, intend to use this short-lived (at least in v1.17) advantage to attack a neighbouring civ, but cannot upgrade to tanks, I simply switch to tank production in my core cities, disband my rallied cavalry units there (at least one per city and turn) and rush-buy the lacking shields. This usually requires two or three turns of heavy micro-management, but the overall effect is the same as with upgradable cavalry: a sudden mass of tanks.

That is, the overall effect for the human player. The AI, while apparently capable of upgrading since v1.17, won't do the disband/rush-buy combo. Which makes my mass of tanks rather overpowering.

	17-03-2002 22:11									#17
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just a question i need some help im creating a workshop program for my civ3 ( IT WILL NOT BR COMMING OUT ON THE NET FOR AVAIBILITY SO DONT ASK ) but im having problems getting some graphics for new units. where can i get some or will some 1 be willing to design me some? as im a total non artist...

	17-03-2002 22:43									#18
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quote: (IT WILL NOT BR COMMING OUT ON THE NET FOR AVAIBILITY SO DONT ASK)

Why?

	18-03-2002 01:45									#19
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The is another problem with setting, say cavalry, to upgrade to tanks but not checking the 'upgrade' button in the editor.

Knights upgrade to cavalry and have 'upgrade' button enabled. Once you get motorized transportation, you can upgrade knights directly to tanks by hitting upgrade. Oh well, I agree with asleepatthewheel above - just show restraint. And let the AI have this one advantage, it comes nowhere near the reload advantage the human player has.