17-03-2002 03:00									#1
	AI space victories Tired of ads?

In my last game (Iroquois, deity) I won by space victory. I should say "won" because it wasn't that satisfying a game, the main reason being there seems no excuse for the AI not launching before me. Everyone had aluminium/uranium, and I know for a fact at least 2 civs had all the techs 4 turns before me. Since the last tech they got was the laser (which has a measly 160 shield component), this must mean they were still building the hefty one from synthetics (the 640), but they'd had synthetics for a good 10-15 turns or so, despite my efforts to engineer the tech advances the other way around. This seems a little lax.

Has anyone been beaten by an AI space victory? If so how many turns did you have to be behind the AI?

	17-03-2002 12:23									#2
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I played a game on a tiny world, and had spies in 2 of the 3 other civs. I built all but one piece of the spaceship, and since neither of the 2 civs had even started on their spaceship, I just sat there for many turns building up my empire.
Suddenly I lost. It came as quite a shock, as one turn it just took me to the loss screen.
Reloading the previous save, I got a spy in the thrid civ to discover that they had built 9 space-ship components, and obviously the next turn the 10th.

So the AI did eventually catch up to me, around 25 or so turns after I could have won, the AI managed to finish their spaceship. This was on Monarch level.

	17-03-2002 21:02									#3
	Put an end to popups!

I lost the 2nd game I played on Emporer level by the Space race. They built it & were on the opposite side of the map to me & before I could disrupt them, they finished it, real quick.

Since then, I don't let the AI get that far. Planting spies & taking the capital does it. I usually see the "powerful enough" civs build the SS ASAP in the games I've played.

	18-03-2002 01:39									#4
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Its me and England (thats was a suprise) on Emp level. They could easly build the space and win but they insist on attacking me. They are way bigger but I have small cont. and lots of tanks and mech inf so its a stalemate. They have all the resources and tech so I don't know what they are waiting for.

	18-03-2002 01:42									#5
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They might not have uranium or aluminium. But most likely it is just a flaw.

	18-03-2002 04:11									#6
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I have lost once by Space Race. It was my most recent game and my first attempt at Emperor level. I was stuck on a medium island and I was behind by two or perhaps it was three techs. Didn't have several resources on my island either so I was waiting to get the last techs to trade for what I needed. My allies did not have those techs yet so trading for them was out of the question.

The Indians managed to launch even though I managed to engineer a war by the next two largest civs against them. New Delhi was just too far from the coast to get to. I managed to sabatoge the Party Lounge once and then three or four turns later they won by launch.

Its true though that the AI is often remiss in building the Space Ship. They tend to get distracted if they have someone they want to go to war with. Still India managed it despite constant warfare for at least forty turns.

	18-03-2002 05:30									#7
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Nukes are good as last mesure to prevent enemies to launch space ship.

Traget Aluminum & Uramium.
After that target big production centers.

It can buy you some time.

	18-03-2002 07:39									#8
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They will complete spaceships, because I have lost to them this way often while trying for SS wins in OCC games at deity level, however, building a spaceship seems to be pretty low on their list of priorities, as I have managed launches in games where one or more AI could have been first if they had pursued their SS construction with the same eagerness they display when building wonders. I have noticed them interrupt their SS construction to go after Cure for Cancer and Longevity, first, and also when becoming involved in a major war.

	18-03-2002 08:20									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I really want to enable Spaceship Victory, But i dont like the idea of the game just going like that .... I like to have control over when I win (or lose).

	18-03-2002 17:48									#10
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Well it seems the moral so far is you can lose the space race, but probably the AI should be a little more focused, and have more of an attempt to deny you key resources at the end.

	18-03-2002 19:35									#11
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I suffered a very humiliating and absent-minded defeat by Space Race. I was the mighty Iroquois, and, having finally dominated the largest continent (more than 60% of the whole world) began to build the mother of all invasion forces to finally rid the world of the pesky Greeks. I filled transport after transport with shiny modern armor, mechanized infantry and the newest radar artillery. I painstakingly built multiple carriers and loaded them with dozens of advanced jet fighters and bombers. I rubbed my hands with glee at the anticipation of crushing that little snot Alexander like the constipated bug he is. Just as my mighty armada (eight transports filled with modern combat units!) set sail, he launched his space ship.

D'oh!

I wasn’t even paying attention. I could have invaded him years earlier, but was so wrapped up in building the “ultimate” invasion force I didn’t even think about space. Oh, well. Lesson learned, I suppose....

	18-03-2002 20:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan I suffered a very humiliating and absent-minded defeat by Space Race. I was the mighty Iroquois, and, having finally dominated the largest continent (more than 60% of the whole world) began to build the mother of all invasion forces to finally rid the world of the pesky Greeks. I filled transport after transport with shiny modern armor, mechanized infantry and the newest radar artillery. I painstakingly built multiple carriers and loaded them with dozens of advanced jet fighters and bombers. I rubbed my hands with glee at the anticipation of crushing that little snot Alexander like the constipated bug he is. Just as my mighty armada (eight transports filled with modern combat units!) set sail, he launched his space ship. D'oh! I wasn’t even paying attention. I could have invaded him years earlier, but was so wrapped up in building the “ultimate” invasion force I didn’t even think about space. Oh, well. Lesson learned, I suppose....

If you've seen that we was making space ship,

WHY DIDN'T YOU USED NUKES?

	18-03-2002 23:25									#13
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None of the A.I.s has come even close to a Space Ship victory in my games. Recordholder are the Brits with 4 Space Ship parts built. I always get a notice when a SS part is completed. That makes a surprise impossible.
My empires are usually smaller than the A.I.s.

	19-03-2002 02:16									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've recently started playing on monarch. Both times I tried a Space Victory I succeeded, but every time at least one AI civ had built 9 of the 10 spacehip parts. On the second try, playing as the French and with 7 spaceship parts completed, I even traded the Laser for Synthetic Fibers with the Persians who had only built 4 parts until then, so that I could beat my main rival, the Indians (who had also built 7 parts). Luckily the Persians hated the Indians (the two civs had been engaged in a major war recently) and therefore were willing to trade anything that could hurt India.

	19-03-2002 10:06									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky Its me and England (thats was a suprise) on Emp level. They could easly build the space and win but they insist on attacking me. They are way bigger but I have small cont. and lots of tanks and mech inf so its a stalemate. They have all the resources and tech so I don't know what they are waiting for.

I only had 3 parts left and lost due to domination. I bet I would have lost Diplomacy earlier in the game if I hadn't disabled it. I have just learned that if the AI isn't trying to win the Space Race, you have bigger problems than ship parts.

	19-03-2002 10:41									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky I only had 3 parts left and lost due to domination.

Lost to domination? I think that qualifies as *beaten like a rented mule.*

Sorry

	19-03-2002 20:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Lost to domination? I think that qualifies as *beaten like a rented mule.* Sorry

It was more like cheap pony.

This was my 1st game on Emp. I had a large Island all to myself, and several civs shared the main continent. I couldn't even leave my island until I built the Great Lighthouse. Then It took some serious diplomacy to get caught up with tech.

I made several attempts to get on the continent. They all ended in disaster. Corruption made my new cities useless. I tried to build a new palace over there, but everyone declared war on me evertime I tried. Eventually England destroyed everyone else. I thought I had enough land to keep them from domination so I could sneak in the space race, but it didn't work.

I normally quite games that become this hopeless, but I was amazed by how well I was doing. It was my most impressive loss ever.

	21-03-2002 01:40									#18
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I played a game recently as the Egyptians where I was in a space race against the neighboring Indians, with whom I was engaged in a third war. I was ahead in the space race, but had no uranium. I assumed the Indians were going to fight me to the end, to slow down my space efforts. Instead, they agreed to peace at the usual time - after I'd proved they'd get no more than a stalemate - and then promptly traded me uranium for the nuclear power advance! Needless to say, I won the game a few turns later.

My overall sense of the AI is that it takes a generalist approach to the game, and never focuses particularly strongly on any one thing. This is why military rushes work so well, and why humans eventually catch up in the tech race. Because the space race is relatively complicated - which tech to research first, getting a head start by working on FP's, etc - the AI is more likely to get outhustled here than in any other aspect of the game.

In a nutshell, who researches Recycling during a space race? Answer: the loser.

	22-03-2002 21:24									#19
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quote: Originally posted by player1 If you've seen that we was making space ship, WHY DIDN'T YOU USED NUKES?

A: Didn't have 'em; no one had built the Manhattan Project yet.

B: Wasn't paying attention; I didn't even know he was building one.

It's like the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip; Calvin is standing by a tree holding a water balloon, savoring the sweetness of the moment when he dumps it on Hobbes' head. Unfortunately, he's so caught up in marveling at the brilliance of his plan that he fails to see Hobbes walk up behind him with a garden hose. I, like Calvin, failed to see the Greek garden hose and got soaked.

	22-03-2002 21:53									#20
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Gets my vote for analogy of the day.