 |
| |
|
|
ijeffe
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Grey Fox
Thanks... very good!
As you can see I need help with this mod... that's why I'm releasing half-finished releases so I can get these Feedbacks!
Thanks everyone and keep helping me! |
Me109f is regarded as a superior plane to the 109g that replaced it. The addition of heavier armamnent on the 109g reduced the manoeverabilty and combat agility of the 109f. I suggest ignoring the existence of the g variant.
I'm happy to advise on the relative technical merits of aircraft of WWII.
Also, B17's were superior to B24 in all but the Pacific theatre, B24's had a slightly longer range which made them more suitable for 'over the water' missions. B17's carried a larger payload, and were acclaimed as the greatest heavy bomber of WWII. (and I'm NOT American!).
Re: Spitfire/Hurricane. The Spitfire was a superior combat aircraft, but like any thoroughbred was trickier to fly. The Hurricane was cheaper to produce, slightly more durable in combat and a more stable gun platform. It was also used as a ground attack/tank killer much more so than the Spit.
Nice Mod! Great Concept. Good Luck!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
kentonio
|
|
quote:
Germany lost 1 Panther to 5 Shermans or 3 T-34 in direct fights to give you an idea of the difference of quality between these steel monsters |
And had an even better record with the mighty Tiger Tank, there are numerous reports of Tigers just sitting wrecking tank after tank as the enemy shells just bounced off it.
Kentonio
 Attachment: tigerattacka.gif
This has been downloaded 895 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Grey Fox
|
 |
Sweden
Jan 2002
time: 06:18
|
|
We are now a team!
MOVED: All info regarding the Team and the next version can be found in the first post.
Last edited by Grey Fox on 23-03-2002 at 08:25
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ijeffe
|
|
Extra info! The Hellcat entered service before the Corsair - Corsair was a stunning plane. However, the best, most influential , fighter aircraft of World War II were the FW190A and the P51D Mustang.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tridotan1
|
|
quote:
The spitfire MkI could hardly be considered a special unit as far as the Uk was concerned. The MKII was prevalent in the battle of Britain (together with the Hurricane MKI). The Mk V was better at altitude, but is I were to suggrest the most influential British fighter it would be the Spit MkII NOT the MKI. If you are looking for a late war fighter upgrade, forget the Spits. MK IX was probably the most widely used, but I believe the best replacement to be the Hawker Tempest or later the Hawker Typhoon. Certainly NOT the Spit 18 whic played a very minor role. |
Yes, you are correct but the Spitfire Mk1 should be the special unit because the special unit is just generally supposed to be an early spitfire. Just as Spitfire Mk18 is not meant to be the Mk18 but just represents a late spitfire.
Grey Fox,
You should not have both the British special plane and the american special plane as the second plane. And whoever said that Corsair came before Hellcat is wrong.
Suggested Plane Chains :
Hawker Hurricane -> Spitfire Mk1 -> de Havilland Mosquito -> Gloster Meteor
Wildcat -> Corsair -> Hellacat -> P51D Mustang
Yak 3 -> A6M2 Zero -> Kawasaki Ki-61
Ta-52H -> FW 190-a -> Bf109e -> Me 262 A-1a
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ijeffe
|
|
We can debate chains of aircraft forever, but when designing a mod you need to think about how the stats will change as you progress through the game. For example, in reality there was very little to choose between a Hurricane and a Spitfire MkI. And if you are going to replace the Corsair with the Hellcat, given that the Corsair was a superior plane, who would want to bother? Unless you make them falsely cheap.
Also, shouldn't the special units be ones that made that country great? It was not the Spit I that won the battle of Britain but the MkII.
Again, I don't think equipment that didn't really play a major role in WWII should feature - the Gloster Meteor had little in any impact on the war.
I would like to suggest extending the age of airpower. At the outbreak of War, Britain still had Goster Gladiators, the Germans had Bf109b's the Japanese had Claude's, the Russians the Polikarpov I-16.... the time the Amercans entered the war their mainstay was the P-40
I'd suggest using an early model fighter for each nation - this will allow the prospect of an upgrade to be something worth waiting for.
suggestions:
Gloster Gladiator->Spitfire MKII(SU)->Hawker Tempest/DH Mosquito
Bf109b->Me109f/FW190A->Me262
Finally - YAK's are Russian not Japanese.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
kentonio
|
|
IJeffe Im with you on this one, it is more more practical to start with a very early plane and then make several decent steps. I also think its more sense to just use the model type ie spitfire etc rather than worry about whether its Mk 1 or Mk 2. For game purposes the upgrade to spitfires should be a really positive one. Personally if im playing a game I dont really care whether its a Mk1 or Mk2 ive just upgraded to as long as it gives me air superiority. It could be very easy to get caught up in too much detail. Lets keep it clear and simple.
Also lets not start thinking in terms of 'special units'. All units in the mod will be nation specific anyway with the minor exception of equipment used by both Britain and the Americans.
Kentonio
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Machinae
|
|
I tried to download the Unit File and received a 404 Error. Is it my system, or is the file no longer hosted on that site?
Thanks
Machinae
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tridotan1
|
|
quote:
Also lets not start thinking in terms of 'special units'. All units in the mod will be nation specific anyway with the minor exception of equipment used by both Britain and the Americans. |
What everyone means is that these are the units with added stats. in order to make the modder's paperwork easier and the game more balanced most units of the same era and type have the same stats, except the special unit. All civs have the same amount of special units.
Kentonio,
I agree with you as far as Mks of planes are concerned. i was opting for an early spitfire and a late spitfire with mks to show that fact.
ijeffe,
The reason meteors and other jet planes played such a minor role is because the only thing going on at that time was bombing, which bombers did and shooting down V1s, which they did very well. They were the best planes in the British airforce at the end regardless of whether they were used or not. They woul have been used very well had there still benn dogfights at the time they were invented. Therefore I think that they should be put on the end of the British plane chain. Names are simply there to make the game better, it is irrelavant whether they were used well or not. It doesn't really bother me however whether they are put in or not but I think that it would be nice to round of the British plane chain with an early jet fighter.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MC4K
|
|
Your mod looks great but i cant download the units. i click on the link and it says page cannot be found.
is the link broken or is it just me being stupid?
tnx
MC
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ijeffe
|
|
I too am not bothered what units go into the game, but my concern with adding a plane like the Meteor that a player's airforce will ultimately consist mainly of Jets, which would I think totally ruin the flavour of a WWII scenario. Only play testing would see if this is the case.
I know it makes designing easier if units of similar class and similar era were given identical stats, BUT quite clearly that was not the case in WWII itself, especially at the outbreak where German units outclassed almost everything else. I would like to see this reflected in the game. So what if it make winning with the germans easier - you don't have to play the Germans or you can hike up the difficulty level.
Designing this sort of scenario I would aim for each nation to have a diferent flavour. What's the point of having units that have different names but are essentially identical?
Re:Meteor - I'm not wholly in agreement that it was the best the British had - it was the fastest, but it was initially flawed.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Machinae
|
|
I was able to download the unit .zip this afternoon. Thanks to whoever, if anyone, fixed it. I think this is going to be a great Mod. !
Machinae
P.S. As for a map, you may want to try this one. It has the North American continent and the EurAsian facing one another, and gives quite a lot of sea to the pacific. It was originally offered by Thaddeus Alexander from this website. I modified it slightly, cut the # of resources in half (there were to many for even sixteen civs.) and made the British Isles look a little more accurate.
 Attachment: thaddeusalexandersearth.zip
This has been downloaded 40 time(s).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ijeffe
|
|
It will kick ass!! Grey fox is intent on it doing so, or so I believe! What units are provided are secondary to the upgrade potential in the game.
Good luck!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ozymandias
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by bd2000
Hie,
I think that the best way to translate the WW2 warfare technology is to use three time periods :
- Early war (39-40),
- Middle war (41-43),
- Late war (44-45).
|
Excellent point.
quote:
... tanks like Tiger were used but were never the main tanks of the Wermacht. The late war main tank of the Wermacht was the Panther (that is far better than the Tiger I). The Tiger I is a middle war tank (first fights in september 1942) but the Panther is a late war (late 1943-1944). The Tiger was replaced by the Tiger II (named King Tiger) in 1944.
|
Let's also not forget how fragmented German industrial production remained throughout the war, with numerous AFV types in production simultaneously, not to mention upgrading old chassis with new (typically turretless) guns. And I know it's disappointing to all of us panzer-pushers, but the most numerous and most common German AFV in 1945 was the humble Sturmgeshutz III.
quote:
I think that for Germans, the correct sequence would be :
Pz III (D if you need a specific model) / Pz IV (F2 or G if you need a specific model) / Panther (the Tiger / Tiger II / Jagdpanther / Jagdtiger were never heavily produced due to the quantity of steel needed and their fuel consumption).
|
Nice
quote:
The same apply for Britishs, the main "medium" tank battle was the Sherman (named Mark V) so I would suggest a sequence like : Matilda I (this tank had only a machinegun as main weapon but had a thick armor for its time), Sherman Mark V and Firefly (or Churcill like you prefer)
|
Slight disagreement. I'd suggest early war: Matilda as DEFENSIVE armored unit; OFFENSIVE armored unit the Churchill (produced 1941-1950) -- also technically an infantry tank. (I'm capitalizing where the scenario editor asks you to choose primary roles for units.)
Of course both Yanks and Brits made due with M3 Stewart/Lees before the mass arrival of the Sherman, but that might not be important at the scale of this scenario. Midwar should be the Challenger and Sherman; irrespective, the UK's 1946 Report of the Select Committee for National Expenditure concluded: "No tank produced in 1943 was worthy of action, while those manufactured earlier were inferior ... [in all ways] ... to German tanks."
An interesting earlier war RECONNAISSANCE tank might be the Vickers line of light tanks (ditto the Stewart for the US and the PzKw II -- later upgraded in mid/late war to the "Luchs" -- "Lynx" -- specifcally for the recon role; perhaps the BT7 for the Soviets).
quote:
I think it should be realistic to limit the use of "heavy" tanks (late war tanks) to the main characters of WW2 (basically USA, UK, Germany and Russia).
|
A principal concern was shipping tanks from the US to the ETO, which is partly why the US "specialized" in medium tanks. I'd suggest that frankly the UK was incapable of producing battle-worthy heavies, leaving Germany and the USSR. Let's also not forget that, had such monsters as the Maus been produced, the majority of bridge in Europe could not have supported their weight!
quote:
I do not want to include Japan as they never produced heavily tanks (and most of the units produced were used in China, not against the US).
|
Ah, but for the war in China, to have them able to attack and then retreat before being destroyed is a thought -- also recall that Japan and the USSR went to war in Manchuria in 1939 with armored (and cavalry) units being prevalent on both sides.
quote:
In anycase, good work Grey Fox !
|
Very much agreed, and very well and helpfully structured reply bd2000
|
|
| |
|
|
|
BiggN
|
|
quote:
"British Tanks will probably be:
Matilda I / Sherman Mark V / Firefly " |
Interestin Choice of English tanks.
The Matilda II was actually in Service during the BOF.
So i wonder Why you would choose the Mk1
Also, if you are looking for French tanks you have the R35, S35 and the Char B1
All of the French Tanks where slow and only the Comanders have Radios in their tanks to commincate w/ HQ.
The Renault, R35 was a Slow Tanks, Weak Armor but a VERY Fast moving Turret, the turret MG's made it perfect for Infantry Support / suppression
The Char B1 was a very slow tank, almost as slow as the Matilda MkII, But was a beast of a tank for this time period at the start of WWII. It had a Hull Gun as well as a Turret, the Hull gun was what made this tank so feared. There was a couple of problems with this tank, A) It was easily disabled due to its tracks being so Visable and B) It had its Radioator output on its side, 1 hit to this Area and the tank would almost explode instantly.
The Somua, S35 was the fasted French tanks Avail, had only slightly less armor that the Char B1 and had a excellent turret gun, the same as the Char B1. But its only Really Strong side was its Front, the Front could take a pounding all day but the Rear was almost paper thin. It was also later converted by the Axis to help them during their conflict with the Russian's.
Strength R35 > S35 > Char
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Wolfshanze
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ijeffe
Again, I don't think equipment that didn't really play a major role in WWII should feature - the Gloster Meteor had little in any impact on the war |
So why is the Pershing tank in this mod?
The Pershing tank never saw any significant action in WWII, and essentially none whatsoever in Europe.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
drlobo
|
|
been playing this mod for a few hours and it crashes whenever I try to build a german submarine, advanced submarine, Luftwaffe Focke 190, so far. if I click on the icon of the vehicle in build window the game crashes. if I build something then have to advisors option to build the above vehicles it seems okay but as soon as I click on the city trying to build them it crashes. also when the city does eventually build the vehicle (turns to build it have been reached) it crashes.
any ideas??
|
|
| |
|
|
|
kentonio
|
|
Whoa! I get the feeling this post is gonna be LONG! 
Firstly...
quote:
Originally posted by bd2000
Hie,
I think that the best way to translate the WW2 warfare technology is to use three time periods :
- Early war (39-40),
- Middle war (41-43),
- Late war (44-45). |
Personally I think 4 time periods are better, Early war (1939-1940), Early Mid war (1941-1942), Mid war (1943-1944) and Late war (1945 onwards). i think the fourth era is necessary because a good war mod should not force you to simply stop at the same instance athe war did, neither should it stop you developing exactly at the point the war ended. If you are playing a WW2 mod as Germany and you beat the Soviets for instance, V2's and such are gonna be a hell of a lot more commonplace than actually happened.
quote:
... tanks like Tiger were used but were never the main tanks of the Wermacht. The late war main tank of the Wermacht was the Panther (that is far better than the Tiger I). The Tiger I is a middle war tank (first fights in september 1942) but the Panther is a late war (late 1943-1944). The Tiger was replaced by the Tiger II (named King Tiger) in 1944.
|
Quite right, there were not enough Tigers to be considered the main tank, however saying the Panther was far better is simply wrong. As an all round tank it certainly was superior but it was what was considered at the time a Medium tank, on a par with the T34 (though better) and the Tiger tank was by any definition a Heavy tank. Put a Tiger against a Panther and you get a very dead Panther.
The Tiger II saw very little action as there were only 489 of them built and they were horribly underpowered. They are gonna have to be given a 1 move. Damn near indestructable however
quote:
I think that for Germans, the correct sequence would be :
Pz III (D if you need a specific model) / Pz IV (F2 or G if you need a specific model) / Panther (the Tiger / Tiger II / Jagdpanther / Jagdtiger were never heavily produced due to the quantity of steel needed and their fuel consumption). |
I much prefer the Panzer II as the first German tank, numerically it was the most influential tank of the early war. The Panzer III was also a big player and I suggested in my post (at CivFanatics, sorry I post there more) that both models should be available at thye start to the Germans.
My suggestion was... (panzer II + III/ Panzer IV/ Tiger/ Panther/ Konigstiger, with Jadgspanzer being the German tank-destroyer to be gained by following a dead end tech branch, the Allied version being the M-10 Wolverine)
It doesnt matter about the versions for game terms, tho in fact the Panzer III Ausf D was the fourth and final prototype version, the first model produced in quantity was the Ausf E.
quote:
quote:
I think it should be realistic to limit the use of "heavy" tanks (late war tanks) to the main characters of WW2 (basically USA, UK, Germany and Russia).
|
I very much agree. As we were discussing in the CivFanatics forum it makes more sense to use the actual tanks each nation had and therefore only these nations have these tanks available. This means of course that Ozymandias is quite right and Britain doesnt have a true Heavy tank, the Americans only get one very late in the Pershing.
quote:
I do not want to include Japan as they never produced heavily tanks (and most of the units produced were used in China, not against the US).
|
The Japanese will simply get the Type 97 Chi-Ha.
@BiggN, the only French tanks were gonna be the Somua S-35 and the Char B1-Bis, but that was a good suggestion about the Renault R-35 and i'll add it to my to-do list
@Wolfshanze, the reason the Pershing is in the mod is because a players war is never going to end exactly as the real one did. If the war goes on longer, or the tech is discovered earlier then the Pershing could be a very important vehicle.
Anyhow, cool discussion so far, keep em coming guys.
Kentonio
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Raiden
|
|
Been playing Civ 3 for a while now and I love the fact that you guys are trying to put together a WW2 Mod. One question though, what about the B-29?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lord Vorpal
|
|
Thanks so much for this WW II Mod I have been lookign ofr one for some time now. And Since I don't have the time nor the Ability to create one myself, I am doubley thankful. I Also Think that you have done agreat job with the leader heads. So I just wanted to send my support and hope that you keepign on doing such a Great Job!!!!!
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-03-2002 01:58
|
