17-03-2002 21:39									#1
	Chinese beat Columbus, Magellan? [OT] Got spare money?

I'm sure there are a lot of history buffs here in this forum, particularly exploration ones. Check out this article on the UK Yahoo! News site.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020316/80/cu44b.html

It discusses a hypothesis (and some minor evidence that has already been released) Chinese world exploration, including the "New World" and circumnavigation in the 15th and 16th centuries, at least 50 years before European.

Now, how does this bode for a healthy game of Civ3... like on Marla's world map or Kittenworld? :)

	17-03-2002 21:51									#2
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Seems that this should be easy to determine. Just look for the ruins of the Great Lighthouse, required for such a trip.

	17-03-2002 22:53									#3
	o yeah Full PM-box? Change here!

I have seen this story on CNN.HN too and it's funny, since I just did a Senior Thesis on the Chinese Immigration to the US and i did some research and found this:

In a Chinese legend, a Chinese buddhist called Hwui Shan, sailed all the way from China, down from Alaska, all the way thru nowadays US and to Acapulco, Mexico, and he called it Land of Fusang. He stayed for over 30 years and during the time, converted some Mayans to Buddhism.

Now this is only a legend, and it's not even well-known in China. But in other researches, many historians studying the Mayan culture claims that there are many connections between the Mayans and Buddhism.

So there.

N e thoughts?

	17-03-2002 23:26									#4
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Lets not forget the vikings who found and colonized north america long before either Columbus or a mythic chinese priest. Did he kayac all by himself I wonder?

	17-03-2002 23:59									#5
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The Chinese were very advanced in their ocean going capabilities but turned their focus inward. They left colonialization to the Europeans but make no mistake, they had the technology (and had it developed) first.

	18-03-2002 02:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Lets not forget the vikings who found and colonized north america long before either Columbus or a mythic chinese priest. Did he kayac all by himself I wonder?

While the Vikings did find North America and stayed for year, they never colonized North America. There were to many Native Americans to deal with, and the voyage was long and dangerous. PBS runs a two day Viking history from time to time. It pretty cool.

The vikings were my favorite civ, I hope they make the XP

	18-03-2002 02:51									#7
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spicytim: Where were your sources about the Buddhism thing?

	18-03-2002 07:29									#8
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I went to a college library and find a reference book about the Chinese in the history of the Americas.

and also, someone here confused colonization and arrival. The original topic is that the Chinese came before the Europeans, not that they colonized before the Euros. Also, he did not "kayaced" here. He has a fleet. The Chinese were the first civ that sends out a huge fleet to visit faraway lands. They were looking for the silk road on sea.

	18-03-2002 08:10									#9
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quote: Chinese world exploration, including the "New World" and circumnavigation in the 15th and 16th centuries, at least 50 years before European.

The norse came to North America and briefly colonized the east coast as far south as New York centuries before Columbus or any mythological Chinese Monk and his fleet of magic ships. Not withstanding the Norse claim, Columbus sailing to the "new world" and returning Europe is a fact not a "legend" (read propoganda).

	18-03-2002 10:30									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH The norse came to North America and briefly colonized the east coast as far south as New York centuries before Columbus or any mythological Chinese Monk and his fleet of magic ships. Not withstanding the Norse claim, Columbus sailing to the "new world" and returning Europe is a fact not a "legend" (read propoganda).

There are many legends in this world that turn out to be true (and many that do not).

Before 1960, the idea that the Vikings arrived in North America was considered a legend. We now know it is true, and it is not, as you put it, a "claim." There is clear evidence.

Why do you assume that a theory about the Chinese reachign North America before Columbus is propaganda? Why not open your mind to the fact that we are still learning about what has happened in the past.

	18-03-2002 17:26									#11
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You've misunderstood my use of the word claim. In this context it means claim as in; lay claim to. The vikings were here first, they can lay claim to that "honour".

quote: Why do you assume that a theory about the Chinese reachign North America before Columbus is propaganda? Why not open your mind to the fact that we are still learning about what has happened in the past.

I'm a scientist. When I can examine some proof, I'll consider the possibility. For now its just another piece of fluff jounalism that is being repeated by those who wish it to be true. I've spent most of my scientific life debunking medical research, based upon one mans opinion, that becomes regarded as fact.

I'm not putting down Chinese sailing, sailors, or the possibility that they could have explored much farther than westerners realize. But in terms of reaching North and South America before Columbus, "SHOW ME THE MONEY".

	19-03-2002 00:28									#12
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But when Columbus discovered America, it stayed discovered. (But then again, he thought he was in China!)

	19-03-2002 00:48									#13
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SpencerH makes a good point. Were is the proof that shows the Chinese discovered the New World before Colombus did? Also too you can not trust every thing you hear on the news, and even more so with the internet. Anyone can put anything they want to on the internet and claim that it is really true, when infact the person who put it up on his website just made it up one day. In print media and television there are editors and others who check if a story is accurate before it is published, but on the Internet you have no such safeguard.

Many times things that have been reported by major news orginizations that turns out to be false. You cant trust everything you hear in the news and Internet.