18-03-2002 08:23									#1
	Start Locations--Frustration, Aggravation!!! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Please, if anybody can help me with this.....


I like CIV III, warts and all, but one thing just chaps my A$$ every time. If I can't figure out a solution, I may be forced to simply uninstall and go back to CIV II and chalk up the $50 I shelled out as another experience in my bad judgement and gullibility....

I don't mind the occasional jungle/desert start. I shrug off the lack of strategic resources that only becomes apparent after 300+ turns (3-6 hours real-time).

What gets my goat is why must there ALWAYS be an A.I. civilization with a start position not five feet from my beginning stomping grounds?????

Now, I've tried to play with this. I have shut off culturally linked starting locations. I have played on Huge maps. I have limited the number of A.I. civs to half of that allowable on a given map...

The only "solution" I have found is to play on the smallest Archipelago map (most water) on maps extremely larger than necessary.

I am not against early warfare...far from it. But my normal play style is to enjoy a early period of expansion/research/peace before attempting to endure the gentle mercies of the A.I.

I find this absolutely impossible in CIV III without equally compromising my ability to expand in the early to mid-game...

Is there anything I can do (maybe in the editor) to force the A.I. start locations a litlle further away on the Continent and Pangaea maps, or should I just retire from CIV III until patch 4.65 (Multi-player) is made available???

	18-03-2002 09:15									#2
	Got spare money?

It always seems like the Civs are spaced pretty evenly without culturally linked starting positions. If you think the map is too crowded you can always just lower the number of AI. Also, in the editor there is a "World Sizes" portion of the rules where you can change the distance between Civs. I haven't tried changing this, so I couldn't tell you how it works though.

If none of that works, just remember that the AI are building cities for you... build the "garrisons" yourself.

	18-03-2002 14:33									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

with the editor, you can generate a map and move the starting locations manually if you think they're not evenly spread.

you can also lower the number of civs on the map so that you have more room to expand before you encounter someone.

	18-03-2002 14:36									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

and of course you can edit the terrain around the starting to remove that annoying desert, and check/modify the resources...

I wouldn't advise it, as it removes one of the most interesting aspects of the game (if you already know that you will have all necesarry resources, where's the fun? how can there be any reversal of situation?)

	20-03-2002 01:21									#5
	Support Apolyton

I haven't really had that problem. There is usually at least one city space between the capitals and you can build 5-6 cities without really fighting for space.
My settings are standard/Emperor. Want a save file of a regular game?

	23-03-2002 11:40									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Keep in mind that Civ 3 supports twice as many civs in a game as earlier games did, so cutting the number of civs in half on a huge map just takes you back to about what would be a fully populated game elsewhere (give or take, depending on whether the huge maps are the same size). From my experience with the original Call to Power (the Civ-type game I've played most), sometimes that's enough to have pretty good separation in starting positions and sometimes it isn't.

Of course there's no law that says you can't restart if your early explorers find someone else too close. (Playing an expansionist civ could help with that.) It's an annoying waste of time, but may be worth it if you like the game otherwise.

Nathan

	23-03-2002 15:12									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Aeson ...just remember that the AI are building cities for you... build the "garrisons" yourself.

A typical Aesonic advice . Which btw means, it's well-thought and true.

Yes, it's not so bad to have a nearby AI. That means:

- early contact for tech trading, which makes sure you can follow up, provided it's connected with the other AI's
- a well working settler machine, which also works as a detector where the later resources are
- a helper against rampaging barbarians
- an easy prey for your armies, because they hardly defend their cities with more than 2 warriors or spearmen. But let them grow to size 2 first, to avoid the auto-razing.

	24-03-2002 20:41									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Aeson Also, in the editor there is a "World Sizes" portion of the rules where you can change the distance between Civs. I haven't tried changing this, so I couldn't tell you how it works though.

It works fairly well, though there is currently a limit as to how far apart they can be. I'm not sure of the other sizes, but on Huge, it's 32 squares. Playing with 8 civs, I never have much a problem with other civs being to close, though sometimes I have to hustle to grab some prime land before they do. I've read Mike (the editor guy) mention that these limits might be increased in the next patch. I hope he does, 32 squares on a 256 X 256 map is still to close for my liking.

	26-03-2002 21:45									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Willem It works fairly well, though there is currently a limit as to how far apart they can be. I'm not sure of the other sizes, but on Huge, it's 32 squares. Playing with 8 civs, I never have much a problem with other civs being to close, though sometimes I have to hustle to grab some prime land before they do. I've read Mike (the editor guy) mention that these limits might be increased in the next patch. I hope he does, 32 squares on a 256 X 256 map is still to close for my liking.

I can see an idea for multiplayer in that. Make a 256x256 map with 128 square distance. Then play with one other person and have a Capture the Captial game?