17-01-2001 08:12									#1
	i want demographic maps! Full PM-box? Change here!

civ is not only a war-game but also a game about building up an empire, this is why i want more infos about it. it would be nice to see some mini-maps (or whatever) where you can see comprimized information about the world, e.g.

-political map
-political realtion map (imperialism is doing great in this case)
-infrastracture map (where are regions with a high density transport system, where are only some streets now and then?)
-population map
-economic map
-army map (where is strong military presence?)
.
.
.

the non-plus-ultra would be if they wouldnīt only show the current situation but also how the world developed - comprimized map-information about the raise and decline of civilizations

the minimum i want is the history-repeating from civ1 back!

------------------
god made weed.....you donīt really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de

	17-01-2001 13:32									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That is the dream, but I suspect it may not become reality

	17-01-2001 16:11									#3
	Tired of ads?

I think your map suggestions are great, though I can't imagine how the infrastructure map would be. It would be most useful if we had a map to show the resources our cities consume, as well as a map for military presence.

*The Replay I think we all want, and I hope it'll make its return in Civ III, and will be much more interesting since we now have leaders etc. (Notice that it's not an integral part of the game itself, but is very important as an element of the great -intoxicating! - graphic atmosphere Civ I had. That includes the diplomacy screen, the palace, newspaper reports, and the city 'view' screen also. Plus, the theme music samples for each civ was great. [Listen to the Zulus through the pc speaker. It's great, and I mean it! Oh God!] I think I'll start a Civ I game now... Goodbye.)

	17-01-2001 23:03									#5
	Got spare money?

ok, now I see. Let's see if there'll be such an option in the game.

	18-01-2001 00:18									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hey weird god (he oida, va wou koummst? ):

i like your idea. and i think generally more stats should be available too. such as two graphs of the relative and total military strength of the civs. a graph for the economical development and wealth (like in the "demographics" of civ2 for average income or trade volume but aver time.) or graphs that show the percentage of production you invested into military (units/barracks), infrastructure (most buildings) and prestige projects (wonders). a graph that indicates how happiness developed over time.
i could think of many more.
gimme statistics!

	18-01-2001 00:40									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Demographic models are great.

I think the civ demographics page in civ 2 was superb. Not only did it add flavour to the game, but each of the statistics was accurate and relevant.

A demographic map? Love it! A feature like this would be both useful and unobtrusive. Bung it in the game, that's what I say.




------------------
Josef Given
josefgiven@hotmail.com

	18-01-2001 18:05									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, I would love more statistics too, the CIV-II demographics should be expanded with each new parameter (health, religion etc.) being introduced in the game.

When it comes to maps, I would like if it would become possible to show, a bit like "show hidden terrain", several game/map/terrain features exclusively on a kind of basemap, or in combinations with other features. f.i.: Show overland-traffic-infrastructure (roads/railroads);
Show traffic-infrastructure with military-infrastructure (forts/(walled) cities/(with) barracks etc.);
Show water-infrastruture (canals/navigable rivers/ports etc.) with etc.;
Show ?????!!!!!


Werna du koummst vonom, i koum vonunten.
[This message has been edited by Vrank Prins (edited January 18, 2001).]

	19-01-2001 10:35									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

oida wos is? san do nur die allemannen draun intressiert? übrigens i kum aus wean, vois ia des übahaupt kennts...

i share your ideas. thereīs so much information in the game which could be analyzed - maps both helps to overview your empire through compromizing infos and are perfect for planning med- to long-time strategy.

i would also like to have more demographic infos itself like mentioned above (religious centers, science centers,...)

	19-01-2001 10:58									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

The replay-section should, as Bagdar posted, return to the Civ legend. But I do not think that we have reason to wory; SMAC had a replay-section similar to the one Civ 1 had.

Originally posted by bagdar

The Replay I think we all want, and I hope it'll make its return in Civ III, and will be much more interesting since we now have leaders etc. (Notice that it's not an integral part of the game itself, but is very important as an element of the great -intoxicating! - graphic atmosphere Civ I had. That includes the diplomacy screen, the palace, newspaper reports, and the city 'view' screen also. Plus, the theme music samples for each civ was great. [Listen to the Zulus through the pc speaker. It's great, and I mean it! Oh God!] I think I'll start a Civ I game now... Goodbye.) [/quote]

	20-01-2001 05:57									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Perhaps if you look at the map in the corner:
---------
|-|-|-|-|
|>>>M>>>|
|>>>A>>>|
|>>>P>>>|
---------
It could work Like the Sim City map to show, through drop-down menus-
E.G. the |-|'s

1. Political Relation Map
2. Infastructure Map (Rails, Farms, Irrigation, Roads)
3. Population Density
4. Economic Map

	20-01-2001 09:04									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Darkcloud you beat me to it (though I was thinking of the ceasar 2 map). I would like to be able to see each turn how military dispositions are shifting so that I can quickly counteract. If all of a sudden my eastern border starts glowing red I know something's up.

------------------
- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

	21-01-2001 06:09									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would trade anytime all the animation for just one more statistic map.

	23-01-2001 13:14									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

With the latest stuff coming out of Firaxis about "culture" and "nationality" being modeled in the game, I think it's safe to say something very like what you're asking for will be included. I certainly hope so!

	23-01-2001 17:15									#16
	Support Apolyton

With the attempts being made to reinforce the non-military aspects of the game I would also like to see breakdowns of the health and education levels of your nation like SimCity. Even if it does not have any direct bearing on how much science/happiness your cities produce individually it would give an alternative peaceful goal to aim for, i.e. watching your average health level and education level rise through decades of peace, prosperity and fully funded amenities. Items like this will help you feel like a nation rather than a loose confederation of independant city states (which is CtP2's biggest failing, IMO.)

	25-01-2001 08:18									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

sim city has excellent mini-maps. i think they would perfectly fit in here too. good point!

	26-01-2001 17:55									#18
	Remove this text

I would like it, if all this features wouldn't become directly available in a game. You would have to "earn" them by discovering new techs. i.e. The more advanced your Civ is, the more information you will have at hand.

	29-01-2001 02:54									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i donīt think you should earn them because these infos have nothing to do with techs. but maybe itīs a good idea that certain techs (spys, space techs, economy,..) or alliances could give you infos about terrain outside your borders.

	29-01-2001 13:38									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I like the idea of "earning" the demographic information. You wouldn't miss it in the early stages of the game, as there isn't much going on anyway. Iow, you wouldn't really need it until you earned it, and then there might be some strategic advantage to having this information, which would just add to the gameplay. Good idea.

	30-01-2001 10:09									#21
	Tired of ads?

Not to rain on the parade, because I like the extra information that demographic maps would give, but I have one thought on the issue.

That is in the civ series your population only lives in your cities. So now when you use these different demographic maps what information is it going to be displaying?

There is no representation for your rural areas around cities. So is the game going to force these demographic maps to the rural areas where no one lives?

Instead this information that you want probably could be included in each city screen. How many people are literate, what the average income is, etc. Then there would be another menu for the averages of your entire nation.

It just doesn't seem like these maps would work in the present civ style with no one living in the suburbs.

	30-01-2001 05:05									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

well, you are right that the people in the civ-series only live in some dozen "cities". if you compare it with the real world (not with a sf scenario like AC) almost all people lived in rural areas till the 20st century. donīt take me wrong but itīs not that hard to find a solution here since computers are pretty good in interpolating whatever data you put in. (city radius, city size, techs, trade,...)

------------------
god made weed.....you donīt really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de

	30-01-2001 20:42									#23
	Suffering from ads?

Yes, like the Civ1 ending animation this was so wonderful. I'll love it forever!!! I Hope they'll put something like this in Civ3...


[This message has been edited by rixxe (edited January 30, 2001).]

	31-01-2001 09:17									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

ok. wanna start on top or at the bottom - at the top? fine. as we mentioned people used to live in rural areas. the cities of civ symbolise areas for they have a city radius and are more than the city icon on the civ-map in total. you see civ itself uses the idea of areas. ok, now weīve the ares in civ symbloised through "cities". a high-pop city actually means that this is a high-pop area.
now we take the step to the maps. we got some big cities and some small ones. we now interprate what this is meaning. right: we have areas with a different pop-density - now itīs up to the computer and to sids-team to decide which model they take. should it be one which considers only of the city-pop? one which implements trade-offs?..........

------------------
god made weed.....you donīt really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de