28-01-2001 06:09									#1
	Unit Variation, Anyone? Remove this text

One thing that really bugged me about Civ II was the great unit variation... that bottlenecked in the Rennaisance.

Consider this: Ancient age units included the warrior, phalanx, archer,legion, pikeman... at any one time you had at least two "infantry" units available. There was also a wide variety of horseback units, reaching a peak with both the knight and the crusader. But once into the Renaissance, you are suddenly limited to one infantry unit and one horseback (musketeers and dragoons). In the Industrial Age this was nearly as bad, with only Riflemen and Cavalry (okay, Alpine troops too). In the modern age you get units in spades, and the variety blossoms again.

The problem with this, as I see it, is that during these "middle sections" of the game some strategy is missing: UNIT STRATEGY. If you want defense, there is one unit. One unit for scouting and in-field assault. And one unit for attacking cities.

What gives? I would like to see CivIII definitly have more variety to stop the inequity between ages. I can think of other Renaissance units... maybe Grenadiers, or Militia, or a Mortar unit... Even different types of cavalry and such, like lancers as well as dragoons.

CTP lagged here too. Most of the time you only had a max of two units for a certain purpose... just when you think you've got a good variety in the modern age at sea (destroyer, battleship, sub) they pull a fast one on you in the diamond age and limit you to only one military surface ship.

Enough rambling. What my point is is that it is silly to restrict types of units, for that takes much of the strategy out. Strategy should be about using units appropriatly, not just about who has more. Variety is what turns brute force into true tactics.

And you?

	28-01-2001 07:07									#2
	Support Apolyton

I agree. THere are bottled-neck areas of the civ game, while others have more units then you can handle.

	28-01-2001 12:36									#3
	Support Apolyton

I agree.
Another thing that I find strange in Civ 2 is that when you get dragoons the soldier are shown on horse, but when you get cavalry the soldier are standing beside the horse.
Dragoons are mounted troups trained to participate in the battle on foot (they often enter the battlefield protected by cavalry), while cavalry is mounted troups fighting on horsebacks.
Therefore two things seems a bit strange here: The unit icons (thats quite easy to fix) and the lack a rennaisance cavalry unit to complement the dragoon.
This was meant to illustrate the fact that there are indeed units to add to the rennaisance period.

	31-01-2001 10:19									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree that generally there are too few units (particularly ground units) in standard Civ2 at any one time.

I have actually had a crack at a Modpack/Scenario which seeks to rectify this for Civ2 ToT in order to add in the more gradual changes that we saw as a result of the continuous improvements over the last millennium and so as to allow a finer discrimination between the various intermediate units.

In addition to the standard :

Archers,
Musketeers,
Riflemen
Marines,
Mech Inf. etc.

I have included the following ground units.

Longbowmen (Much to and fro on the forums as to whether this is a valid inclusion or not)
Infantrymen (Musketeers drilled in Infantry procedures & equipped with Bayonet)
Early Marines (Circa 1700's)
People's Militia
Musket-Riflemen
Conscripts
Bicycle Troops
Machine Gun Group
Modern Infantry
Commandos

As well as

Knights (Early)
Knights (Later)
Lancers (Dragoon Contemporaries)
Scouts (Cavalry Contemporaries with some special Abilities)

Siege Tower
Bombard
Modern Artillery
Naval Artillery

and so on.

In the modpack at each stage in history there are generally at least 2 ground units in each 'niche' that can be built.

If interested for a look-see you can find it at :
http://members.tripod.lycos.com/kestrel18/Millennium/

(The rules.txt is in the file Millennium_Misc.zip)

	01-02-2001 01:53									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My take:

Infantry, Renaissance:
- pikemen
- arquebusmen
- musketeers
- grenadiers (like early marines)

Infantry, Industrial:
- Riflemen
- Machinegunners
- Entrenched Riflemen

Infantry, Modern:
- Marines
- Paratroopers
- Partisans
- Storm troops (replaces alpine)
- Mortar troops

More to come later...