13-04-2002 05:21									#31
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I'm hoping to see Polynesia (capital: Jakarta) or else a big part of the Earth map will remain blank.

My present wishlist for a balanced new set of 8 civs is:

[1] Arabia
[2] Dutch
[3] Ethiopia
[4] Mali
[5] Maya (/Olmec)
[6] Polynesia
[7] Tiahuanaco (/Inca)

[8] Tough choice. Vikings are interesting but European, so are Portugal and Spain. Ottomans: territory already very crowded. Purely geographically, Mongolia or Korea, but neither of them is really a favourite of mine. I guess it will depend on the scenarios.

	13-04-2002 09:53									#32
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Ribannah, if the Mongols and the Koreans are going to crowd Northeast Asia in your opinion, then why do you think the Dutch aren't going to do that between the French and the Germans? After the initial 16 civs, I don't think crowding issues should be as important as how important the civ is and how many fans would want to play it.

	13-04-2002 11:08									#33
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OK, OK! Most important:
1-Arabia
2-Turkey
3-Spain
4-Phoenicians
5-Holland
6-Sweden
7-Mayans
8-Incas
9-Mongols
10-Polynesians

	13-04-2002 12:34									#34
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How are the Polynesians more important than the Koreans, Portuguese, or Khmer? Also, about the Israelites, their history is mostly biblical and they lost their land. How much territory did they ever occupy at their height anyhow? Please explain.

	13-04-2002 12:56									#35
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I would like to include Israel, because of the present world. We should have the UU of this time. But I would not find them crucial enough...
Only on basis of their empire, you might as well include Mittani (ancient Syrian empire) and a million other civs (figurally speaking.)
Just to give you an idea: Who would like to play the Palestines? Based on their 'world ranking,' they'd be around the 200th civ. Of all times about the 600th civ. Still, I bet they are higher on your list than the 600th place.

	13-04-2002 13:18									#36
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What do you mean by that?

Anyhow, I think the only reason why people want to include the Israelites is so they can pit them against the Arabs or Arab-like civs (Egyptians and Babylonians). Also, there are a lot of supporters of Israel and they want to include them in.

I don't see why not, but they shouldn't be in the expansion pack if they only include eight or so more civs.

	14-04-2002 00:20									#37
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I don't think Israel, historically, was very important. Their importance now shouldn't supersede ancient civilizations that have done important things, like the Arabs. BTW, do you think they would make the leader Muhammed?

	14-04-2002 00:39									#38
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar Ribannah, if the Mongols and the Koreans are going to crowd Northeast Asia ...

Er, no, that's not what they do, and an important reason why I might put one of them in slot 8.

	14-04-2002 01:08									#39
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quote: Originally posted by tandeetaylor BTW, do you think they would make the leader Muhammed?

I personally have nothing against this. He lead armies, was first to spread the faith and because of him there really is an Arab culture in the Middle-East which is of any importance.
Somebody said something on a forum. (Can't remember who it was, please restate your point.) That it would be an insult to the Islam, because there are no images left of Mohammed.
Until better evidence is given, I disagree, however for one simple reason: Mohammed was not sacred, he was considered to be a simple man, who happened to be chosen by God.
If there are any Arab Apolytoners please reply, so we can learn what we can and what we can't do.

quote: Originally posted by siredgar What do you mean by that? Anyhow, I think the only reason why people want to include the Israelites is so they can pit them against the Arabs or Arab-like civs (Egyptians and Babylonians). Also, there are a lot of supporters of Israel and they want to include them in. I don't see why not, but they shouldn't be in the expansion pack if they only include eight or so more civs.

Think of the Iroqouis: nobody considers them a real power. But Civ3 isn't realistic in the first place. Lot of people still like a native civ in Civ3.

BTW: If Israel is set to be only about the ancient civ, I think I would immediately replace them by something else.

	14-04-2002 03:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Beren Think of the Iroqouis: nobody considers them a real power. But Civ3 isn't realistic in the first place. Lot of people still like a native civ in Civ3.

Actually, the Iroquois did pretty well as an empire. The territory they controlled at the height of their might (around 1680) is comparable to that of other civs included in the original 16. Their military was the most powerful in the region with thousands of musketmen.

	14-04-2002 03:38									#41
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I agree with Ribbanah, the Iroquois are more significant than the Israelites. They held more territory, at the very least. Anyhow, there was also probably a space and cultural zone filling factor involved, too. The Israelites would be squished in between the Egyptians and the Babylonians on a small squat of land.

	14-04-2002 08:54									#42
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Spanish, Mongrols, and Vikings definately. Along with probably Aboriginees, Finns, and Apolytonian Greeks

	14-04-2002 09:19									#43
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I'd say Aborigines (at least the Oz variety) didn't have a civilization so much as they have a culture. Otherwise Grrr, we are of the same mind.

	16-04-2002 10:27									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Actually, the Iroquois did pretty well as an empire. The territory they controlled at the height of their might (around 1680) is comparable to that of other civs included in the original 16. Their military was the most powerful in the region with thousands of musketmen.

If Iroqouis would have been an European civ, I'd doubt they'd be included. They wanted a native civ and chose the best one avaiable.

	16-04-2002 10:38									#45
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Isn't the term "aborigine" used widely outside of Australia or New Zealand? I know they called themselves the Maori in N.Z., but what do they call themselves in Australia?

Anyhow, they don't deserve to be Civ 3 and they won't be in the game. They're lucky to be a barbarian tribe. Terribly sorry.

	16-04-2002 16:31									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Beren If Iroqouis would have been an European civ, I'd doubt they'd be included. They wanted a native civ and chose the best one avaiable.

If the Iroquois would have been a European civ, they would have conquered / adopted Europe in its entirety and traded with Arab and Inca colonists.

	16-04-2002 16:37									#47
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quote: Originally posted by siredgar Isn't the term "aborigine" used widely outside of Australia or New Zealand? I know they called themselves the Maori in N.Z., but what do they call themselves in Australia?

They call themselves Koori.

	16-04-2002 17:49									#48
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Thanks.

By the way, I just read that New Zealand has decided to break its legal links with the U.K. Interestingly, relating to this topic, the Maori have been particularly using this link to the British higher courts to appeal on cases re: their treaty with the Empire.

	17-04-2002 11:13									#49
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come on folks, this thread is starting to stray off track a bit. There are plenty of other threads to discuss personal preferences, but this thread was meant to try to read into what Firaxis is planning. No offense to a fellow Iroquois fan Ribannah Bananna.

	18-04-2002 12:43									#50
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Threads always stray from the topic. Stop being a discussion dictator!

Anyhow, I was quite serious about my list. Although I think if there is indeed an expansion pack, there will be eight additional civs, not 10 like I suggested. The order remains the same, however, at least for me.

	23-04-2002 07:57									#51
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Spanish- Phillip II/Isabella- Madrid- Re/Ex
Tercio (4.6.2) Rifleman/Musketman

Mongols- Batu Khan- Karathroum (sp?)- Mi/Ex
Horse Archer (2.1.3) Horseman

Celtics- Bordicca- Catiff (sp?)- Mi/In
Beserker (2.1.1) Warrior

Carthagians- Dido- Carthage- Co/Ex
War Galley (2.1.3) Galley

Vikings- ???- Trodhiem (sp?)- Mi/Co
Longboat (2.1.3) Caravel

Arabs- Saladin- Baghdad/Mecca- Re/Co
Mamulk (sp?) (5.3.2) Knight

Incans- ???- Cuzco- Re/Sc
Sun Knight (2.2.2) Horseman

Hewbrews- David- Jerusalem- Re/Co
Zealot (3.2.2) Swordman

	24-04-2002 09:40									#52
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(1) Incans
(2) Vikings
(3) Mongols
(4) Some African Civ (mb Mali or Nigerians or Assyria or something like that)

	24-04-2002 10:23									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Signa Mongols- Batu Khan- Karathroum (sp?)- Mi/Ex Horse Archer (2.1.3) Horseman

I would make it a fast knight.

And Lawrence of Arabia, Assyria is not an African civ.

	25-04-2002 07:01									#54
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Ya i just realized that. I mean the civ which the Italians invaded in Ethopia

	25-04-2002 10:42									#55
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Call it: Aksumite, Ethiopia, Abessinnia or something like that.

	04-05-2002 07:52									#56
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This is a little slow, but...

I would like to make the Mongol Horse Archer a 4.3.3 Knight, but the Chinese Rider forbides that. Unless China slides over the Horse Archer has to be either a Horseman or Cavalry (now which would you choose...).

	04-05-2002 09:54									#57
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Ya know, while I generally don't object to any civs being included (the more the merrier), I have to draw the line at the Mongols. Sure, they're cool. They conquered. But a civilization? No. Nomadic barbarian horsemen. The barbarian tribes of the game already got them covered. Let's not waste a civ slot on them.

	12-05-2002 02:30									#58
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I think they will only have 7, possibly 8 just for the novelty
It will likely be-
1. Mongols
2. Sioux
3. Celts
4. Korean
5. Vikings
6. Arabs or Turks
7. Spain
8. Incans

	12-05-2002 05:32									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Beren I personally have nothing against this. He lead armies, was first to spread the faith and because of him there really is an Arab culture in the Middle-East which is of any importance. Somebody said something on a forum. (Can't remember who it was, please restate your point.) That it would be an insult to the Islam, because there are no images left of Mohammed. Until better evidence is given, I disagree, however for one simple reason: Mohammed was not sacred, he was considered to be a simple man, who happened to be chosen by God. If there are any Arab Apolytoners please reply, so we can learn what we can and what we can't do.

Actually it is unlawful for anyone to potray Muhammad (or any other leader, for that matter, but, sadly, it has happened ). The reason is because if there was an image of him, people might follow that, just like what, afaik, Christian's do about Jesus (i.e. the son of God). So, he is out of the picture (plus he shouldn't be a hero either). Should but Salahuddin or Harun al-Rashid (since, afaik, there are pictures of what they looked like).