19-03-2002 15:34									#1
	Poll: Should all units have increased movement factor? Got spare money?

In a world where you defeat three countries in six days (which is about 1/120 of a turn) - 1967 and it was possible to sail around the world in one or two years around 1500 and around 300 BC Aleksander the Great captured entire Persia in about twenty years (I think that would be less than a turn), this is all not possible in Civ3.

I think the most simple solution to this is to increase the movement factor of all units. I think it will make the game more realistic.

	19-03-2002 16:39									#2
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i voted yes, but not just because it's more realistic, it's also more fun, this way you'll also need some units to defend your inner cities, instead of overdefending your border cities

	19-03-2002 19:56									#3
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But if you do that, every unit will have the retreat option and there'd be no real difference between an Archer and a Knight.

	19-03-2002 20:57									#4
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a unit only has the retreat option when fighting a slower unit, so as long as archers are slower than knights, it wouldn't make any difference

	20-03-2002 01:24									#5
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I think there should be an mapsize option, saved in the map part of the BIC, to have a movement point multiplier. That way you could adjust the movment to be realistic for a map you create, without having to edit the rules.

	21-03-2002 00:15									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy a unit only has the retreat option when fighting a slower unit, so as long as archers are slower than knights, it wouldn't make any difference

Well then none of the units would ever be able to retreat then. The end result is the same, all the units would have the same abilities. You may as well eliminate half of them, and just have 1 type that's used for everything, since it wouldn''t make any difference.

	21-03-2002 00:18									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos I think there should be an mapsize option, saved in the map part of the BIC, to have a movement point multiplier. That way you could adjust the movment to be realistic for a map you create, without having to edit the rules.

That would be a good idea. I play on maps 256 X 256, and it would be great having some extra movement for a huge map size, without sacrifising the retreat ability. I've already doubled the movement of all my ships, but there's not really much I can do about the land units.

	21-03-2002 01:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well then none of the units would ever be able to retreat then. The end result is the same, all the units would have the same abilities. You may as well eliminate half of them, and just have 1 type that's used for everything, since it wouldn''t make any difference.

uhm, i think you misunderstood me, or i wasn't clear...
the archer will still be slower than a knight, right?
then the knight will still be able to retreat when fighting an archer, but the archer won't be able to retreat. So for example multiplying all movement by 2, will have no impact on which units can and can't retreat.

When 2 units are fighting, only the fastest can retreat, if there is a fastest off course.

	21-03-2002 01:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy uhm, i think you misunderstood me, or i wasn't clear... the archer will still be slower than a knight, right? then the knight will still be able to retreat when fighting an archer, but the archer won't be able to retreat. So for example multiplying all movement by 2, will have no impact on which units can and can't retreat. When 2 units are fighting, only the fastest can retreat, if there is a fastest off course.

Well maybe I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that a unit can't retreat at all if it's attacking another "fast" unit. The movement differences between the two are irrelevant.

	21-03-2002 01:44									#10
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Yes, specially the maritime units... double the movement rate.

	21-03-2002 15:13									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Well maybe I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that a unit can't retreat at all if it's attacking another "fast" unit. The movement differences between the two are irrelevant.

hmm, now i'm not sure either

i'm gonna test this...

	23-03-2002 01:03									#12
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Personally, I've increased the speed of all shipping (destroyers and AEGIS are 9s, other moderns(nuc subs too) are 8, subs 5, 18th cent sailing 4, ancients 2 or 3). I also increased the road factor to 1/5th a move point. However, when i increased modern armor to 5, I realized that I could reach any city border in one turn regardless of cultural border because few cities grow out more than 4 squares. I've lowered the fastest land unit to 4 which means that against the largest cities, I will have to sit one turn "exposed" to attack before I get to attack. When it was set to 5, I literally destroyed a powerful empire in one turn by leapfrogging thru each captured city and attacking the next intermost one. I used 200+ mod armor to take out over 30 cities. By lowering it the speed to 4, not only was I open to attack, but the threatened cities would draft alot of defenders, and transfer in additional defensive units. Replaying that game at the slower movement, my same invasion suffered substantially heavier casualties and took about 6 turns.

	23-03-2002 11:42									#13
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Another solution could be that the turns last shorter (ofcourse with adjusted tech rate.) But this would mean that the game lasts longer.

	23-03-2002 13:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Beren Another solution could be that the turns last shorter (ofcourse with adjusted tech rate.) But this would mean that the game lasts longer.

That's the way I really would like it... I hope the turnlength can be edited in the future. But then most likely the techrate should be allowed to set per turn, or maybe add a flag for techs which speeds up research, as the reasearch per year would be unrealistic eiher in the early game or in the late game.

	28-03-2002 05:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos That's the way I really would like it... I hope the turnlength can be edited in the future. But then most likely the techrate should be allowed to set per turn, or maybe add a flag for techs which speeds up research, as the reasearch per year would be unrealistic eiher in the early game or in the late game.

Oh yeah, that would be great. Then I could spend months playing a game, rather than weeks.

	05-04-2002 19:14									#16
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I tried this, my mod tripples all movement rates. My problem was that foot soldiers began to run away from battles, making defeating them in defensive actions tough.

	06-04-2002 22:49									#17
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Better to decrease the time taken by turns and increase the costs of building improvements/units to reflect that.