19-03-2002 23:58									#1
	Was Civ3 made to amuse the AI or the human player? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It seems with the 1.17f patch that Civ3 has turned into a game that is designed for the AI's enjoyment and not the human players' enjoyment.

What is it I'm driving at you ask? Why must patches be issued to stop certain exploits and tricks that some so called civ experts use to play the game? Why is it that now I'm forced to play Civ3 with the 1.17f patch like I'm at the bargain basement store trading techs with people instead of using my own resources to discover them myself? Did the inventor of the automobile go somewhere and pay x amount of gold to buy the tech for automobile or did he use his own resources and brain power to discover the automobile himself?

Why do all games have to degenerate into me vs. the world? The AI simply loves to gang up on the human and wipe him off the map. It doesn't matter how friendly you are. The only solution to this problem is to build up a monster military. Only with military muscle will the AI respect you, not by being a nice guy and giving the AI gifts. What a joke!

So in short it feels like the AI is laughing and giggleing when it sees my 3 city empire fall flat on it's face within the first 10 turns of the game. If you play at chieftain level your fine but any level above that and no matter what you get wiped off within the first 10 turns of the game. Pooh.......

	20-03-2002 00:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Are you serious?

In all of my games since the patch I've managed to avoid war until the 1800's. I play a builder style of game with just enough military for defense. Most of the time the AI civs are warring with one another. In one of my games I started with all 16 Civs and by the time any of them got around to attacking me I was on my last spaceship part and there were only 4 other civs left.

	20-03-2002 00:20									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: It seems with the 1.17f patch that Civ3 has turned into a game that is designed for the AI's enjoyment and not the human players' enjoyment.

wel, computers have feelings to.

	20-03-2002 00:25									#4
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man wel, computers have feelings to.

If they did... it sure would be more fun kicking their butt

	20-03-2002 00:38									#5
	Suffering from ads?

My old computer used to pout and lock up often.

	20-03-2002 00:44									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: My old computer used to pout and lock up often

my old one didnt do to bad either, for example, i dial up to the net and calls the number, waits about 5 minutes confirming the password then it just stops and i never got online, and it dialed up again, yet when i put the mouse of the cancel button to threaten it, it worked!!!!

	20-03-2002 00:57									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by ACooper Are you serious? In all of my games since the patch I've managed to avoid war until the 1800's. I play a builder style of game with just enough military for defense. Most of the time the AI civs are warring with one another. In one of my games I started with all 16 Civs and by the time any of them got around to attacking me I was on my last spaceship part and there were only 4 other civs left.

Actually yes I'm serious. Every single game I've played with 1.17f has ended in my death because it was me vs. the world. My games end at about 30-50 turns if I'm lucky. This is happening to me on all levels except on chieftain. Now I know I'm not that great a player but I'm not abysmal either. I just can't seem to get along with the AI. If anyone out there is having fun with 1.17f I'd like to hear from you because I'm ready to die of a heart attack.

	20-03-2002 01:02									#8
	Tired of ads?

If you want to get along with the AI, sign ROP agreements. Then, if they declare war on you, their reputation is so tarnished that noone will join them in an alliance for anything but a ridiculous sum. Plus, ROPs generally improve your relationship.

	20-03-2002 01:07									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Not to ask dumb questions, but I will anyway.

Are you playing with the original (1.17f) .bic file or are you playing with a mod?

Do you play a very militaristic style or are you a builder?

Do you play only one civ or do you play with different ones?


Just trying to get a feel for what could be wrong.

	20-03-2002 01:40									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Zouave:

Thanks for the tip! I will give this technique a try. I tend to avoid signing ROP agreements with anyone but perhaps a change is due.

ACooper:

I am indeed playing with the original 1.17f .bic and not a mod.

I am a hybrid player. I tend to be a builder but if someone picks on me than I turn into a warmonger.

I definately play with different civs each time I start a game. I would like to believe I have an adequate understanding of my playstyle to figure out which civ I should stick with playing but I like variety. Just can't stick to playing one civ all the time but if this is a problem I am willing to change.

I appreciate any input you have and if there is anything else you need to know ask away!

	20-03-2002 01:46									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Try being a whimp until you can get at least 6 offensive units. What I mean by offensive is you don't need them to protect any of your cities. They're just gravy on your already sufficient defense forces. I had the same problem as you until I started using this strategy. If a Civ demands 100 gold for peace give it to them. Just make a mental note of all those civs that do this. Revenge makes Civ 3 twice as fun. Using this strategy you should probably double offense number every 10 turns. Also find a buddy. There is usually 1 country with whom you can have amicable relations with. Make that Civ your best friend. Give them your map as much as possible. If you have extra money buy something from them anything at an inflated price. Believe me having someone who carries a big stick if you don't have one helps a lot in this game. Try these out and tell me what happens.

	20-03-2002 01:52									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

SultanofATL:

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to give this a go along with the ROP strategy discussed by Zouave. I'll give it a try after work tonight!!!

	20-03-2002 01:53									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It's sounds like we play similar styles, so our games should be about the same. If I have a complaint it's that the AI doesn't come after me when I'm my weakest.

Try Zouave's suggestion about RoP aggreements. I also at times give a civ that's furious with me 10 gold or something stupid just to better their mood towards me. If they come to you to trade don't say "No way". Offer a counter proposal instead and if your advisor tells you they won't accept click on "Never mind" and leave the screen. That way they don't get in a huff.

Though if it is that bad, I might consider uninstalling and reinstalling the game and then repatching it, but that is a little extreme so you might want to try a few other things first.

	20-03-2002 01:53									#14
	Put an end to popups!

I find that the key to making war (not love, unless you're the type ) is to find allies. Its no fun to war (or love, for that matter) by yourself. Generally, in my games I usually find that there are the two alliances. If I'm not already part of one (rare instances), then I try to stay out of the way and just pick up the pieces. However, if I get attacked, the first thing I do is find allies. This does two things -- defrays the offensive across many civs, and prevents those civs from jumping in against me.

However, sometimes it costs me an arm and a leg to recruit allies, but it is most likely worth it.

Zardos

	20-03-2002 01:55									#15
	Got spare money?

I hope You have very bad luck

	20-03-2002 02:07									#16
	Tired of ads?

godinex:


Como pudiste hacerme esto a mi? Eh?



Elvis Crespo.....................

	20-03-2002 06:40									#17
	Support Apolyton

I'm not the greatest player, but I recently won my first regent game. It was an accomplishment for me. I did it by building warriors in the beginning. Lots of them. Then every twenty turns I'd renegotiate peace with any other civ I contacted. This locks them into a twenty turn trade agreement. And the AI seems to count it as a trade so their attitude tends to become better. That part doesn't make too much sense, (Give me three techs and all your gold or I'll bury you.) and their attitude goes from cautious to polite? Oh well. This is just something that worked for me.

	20-03-2002 17:56									#18
	What an improvement!!! Got spare money?

Well thanks to your sound advice I'm doing a lot better!

Last night I started a game on Warlord (I have only been playing on Chiefain with 1.17f) and followed the advice of Zouave, SultanofATL, and ACooper. What an improvement.

Briefly, I was approached as usuall for ludicrous demands and gave in to them. It wasn't a problem because I set science to 20% and was raking in the cash to pay for the demands. I then engaged in some tech trading here and there. Since I had the money I was able to buy techs for a premium from one civ and then sell it to others who didn't have the tech. Of course I took a profit loss but I did noticed that the AI's atttitude for most of the civs increased from annoyed to polite. This was a good thing as it allowed me to survive the first 100 turns. Interestingly war against me has been nonexistant, with the AI fighting more amongst themselves.

I will continue to experiment and try a higher difficultly level using these tactics to see what happens. Thanks to all of you who helped!

	20-03-2002 19:30									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Having insufficient military forces (and of course they know it immediately) is enough to get you treated with contempt, even if you have mech inf vs their chariots.

Rather than offer a counter deal that the AI wont except I always clear the decks and offer them 10 gold for nothing. They accept and go away having forgotten what it was they were demanding before.

Admittedly this advice is from pre-1.17 because I haven't played a complete game since.

	20-03-2002 19:43									#20
	Support Apolyton

Haupt. Dietrich:

Glad to hear your enjoying the game more. I really think this game has gotten a bad rap. If you implement the right strategies it is very entertaining. Happy Civing!