20-03-2002 08:03									#1
	Are peace treaties required for provinces to change hands? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi All,

My first post here as far as I can recall! (Been a heck of a week )

I just got EU2 with patch 1.04 applied. I'm trying to learn using the easiest level. I'm playing the French in Exploration. The thing that really bugs me so far is that I can occupy a province forever, controlling it militarily, and I don't get to run it as the de-facto owner. Am I just missing something, or is that just the way it is?

Conquering the rest of that country is not at present an option since its on Sardinia. The Genoans don't think I've beaten them enough for them to offer the province, and I'm not prepared to settle for the 100G or so they're offering.

I can see occupation not being economically beneficial for the first month or so, but FIVE Years?! From my perspective it should be mine, although I would have to deal with potential revolts of course. Before I vent further I'll see what any responses have to say.

Thanks in advance,

Mark

	20-03-2002 08:30									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes you must sign a peace treaty which obliges them to cede the province to you. If your war score isn't high enouhg, try capturing another few of their provinces. If the province happens to be their capital then you can't take it, unless they have only one province.

(You mean Corsica, don't you?)

	20-03-2002 10:19									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Two things to note:

After the Treaty of Tordesillas, Spain+Portugal can 'smash and grab' native american provinces wthout going through the European rigamarole.

Also, you can get provinces and not be at war in three ways:

1) as the result of historical events (Habsburg inheritance, Bourbonnais)

2) Revolters who like you (religion, culture) can join you without any war or peace negotiation with their former owner.

3) Obviously, you get all the provinces of vassals you annex without war or peace.

Some things I have modified in the default events:

-Viva Espana! Event: changed Castile's vassalization of Aragon to Inherit. More accurate, helps computer defeudalize Spain.

-Manchu attack China 1611: gave Manchu more troops, increased Offensive Doctrie, Quality

Just for fun:
-If Byzantines conquer Rome, their capital moves there, Rome switches to Orthodox, and flavour text message about reborn Roman Empire comes up. They should already have Italian culture. This probably screws up the Ottoman events, but the Byzantines never live that long anyway...

-If Chagatai's conquer Anhui, Capital moves to Hebei and becomes Mongol, Sunni, flavour text about recreated Great Khanate. LOL as if.

-added flavour text for Austria conquering all HRE.

-Prussia can change name to Germany if they control enough German states.

	20-03-2002 22:09									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks for the info Seeker and Shadowstrike!

Unfortunately, that's the answer I was fearing I'd hear... I got my southern fleet sunk trying to take Naples from the sea, and so there's no way for me to get to Corsica without major fleet-building. I may just start again, and not make the same mistakes. I'll think of new ones to make .

The "European rigamarole" does make getting into the game more difficult for me, although in general I like the peace-treaty setup. I can't tell yet if EU2 is going to be of any long-term interest or not.

The lack of a global "build army" screen is a big bite. Every time I need to go into six provinces and specify units in thousands of guys I lose just a little bit more interest.

Thanks again!

Mark

	21-03-2002 01:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Seeker, is editing fairly easy or are you a genius at cracking code?

	21-03-2002 01:59									#6
	Got spare money?

EU2's scenario editing language is fairly simple, I'm working my way through making a set of Byzantium events myself. Very unforgivving for small typos, which is driving me nuts.

	26-03-2002 09:56									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Nice to see you, Shadowstrike(Im David Comnenus on EU site). In EU, only treaties caused provinces to change hands. However in EU2, events sometimes do the same thing.

	26-03-2002 11:07									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

"Seeker, is editing fairly easy or are you a genius at cracking code? "


LOL the first unfortunately...if you use Civ2: Fantastic Worlds editing tools you can do most EU2 events.

First, make it easy on yourself, you don't have to learn the syntax for most things.

just look at how it's put together, and some of the commands, copy and paste.

You can just change the names, dates, countries, etc for certain things for example say you want a national unification event that happens on a date.

Triggered events are the most fun, easiest to do is if country x captures province/s y, then text, + a name change, whatever.

Things you cannot do:

You can never force independance. You can increase the rebelliousness, but there is no event to just create independance.

Event forced alliances/vassalizations: (examples: Aragon + Castile, the Auld Alliance between France and Scotland) These can still be broken, because they can still dishonour.

You can have an event annex, but you cannot force a country to accept the normal annexation of a vassal (always remember, they will never accept vassalization if they are even close to your size).


I liked adding some more 'flavour text' type little events, they are the easiest to do.

More Italian inventors, some more Japanese events, Shakespear plays, assassinations.

	28-03-2002 02:43									#9
	Got spare money?

This only serves to whet my appetite for my copy, whcih should arrive on Friday if luck permits.

	31-03-2002 00:51									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

And when the government falls every occupying powers annexes what he was occupying. But government only fall with very low Stability and very many revolting provinces.

	31-03-2002 00:58									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for the info. But if the govt falling is a rare case, then it doesn't help much with my issue...

Thanks again,

Mark

	31-03-2002 02:11									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Agreed, I just tried to be complete. I remember someone said that this method was the best way to annex many provinces at once...but this person was quite vague how exactly to let this happen. The only real method is to conquer a lot more provinces than you will annex, and when you fight a small country you just have to conquer the whole country.
Then the enemy starts offering provinces, usually he gives you a good deal after a while.

Good luck!

	31-03-2002 06:51									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Unfortunately, that's the answer I was fearing I'd hear... I got my southern fleet sunk trying to take Naples from the sea, and so there's no way for me to get to Corsica without major fleet-building.

How would you transport Corsica's taxen then?

	31-03-2002 16:37									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

LOL...

Anyway the best solution to conquer those pesky little islands with 50 K soldiers each is to build huge fleets of cheap galleys. I hate to do that in the pre-golden port era when I have to click an awful number of times just to build one lousy ship.

And in the meantime, accept peace for some gold. After you built a fleet of 80 galleys you can have your revenge!

It would be great if you could order provinces to build a certain number of ships or armies, like you can in Civ3. I hate to click a zillion times just to build a decent fleet.

	31-03-2002 18:00									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Thanks for the tip, I'll do the galley fleet next time I play. But as you say building ships one or a few at a time is a Real drag.

There should be a way to select a region (group of provinces), and just command that within that region you want X of one thing and Y of another built, and get the info of how soon it'd be ready. That's what I'm planning to do in Clash of Civilizations. Right now in Clash you can't tell it when to stop automatically, but at least you can issue orders to the whole civ with just a few clicks!

	31-03-2002 18:15									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yummie!!!

I will check the Demo out now!

Giving orders to the whole province or even the whole civ is more realistic, after all does anyone imagine that Napoleon was giving seperate orders for every few thousand soldiers to be drafted?

The merchants are handled well in EU. You can micromanage or leave it to the AI.

	01-04-2002 00:49									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I tend to do it myself as soon as monopolies are available.

That is, if I have my own CoT...


Does anyone know what is different on 'hard' mode?

	01-04-2002 02:57									#18
	Less Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

province income for the player and higher BB for acting out.

	01-04-2002 06:31									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Which means then you really got to make a dash for those CoTs, to get more money to offset for those lower taxes.

And being a BB actually helps once you have huge armies, the same way setting the aggression High helps you: the enemy will attack YOU and they will lose stability for it, not you.

The key yo playing is remembering those words of roman emperor Septimius Severus; ALWAY REMEMBER THE ARMY!!! (in latin).

With a huge army you whip anyones ass. Yes, even that of Napoleon.

And ONLY THEN come those luxury items, those artsy partsy schools, tax collectors with their sissy hats and so on. My advice, go for an all out medieval Soviet-style army and forget everything else! Believe me everything else will come to you!