20-03-2002 11:37									#1
	Soundwave and 'Princess Lee' Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

A couple of days ago Warvoid sent me a PM that confirmed my suspicion that the poster 'Princess Lee' is actually Soundwave's DL.

While having a DL by itself is generally agreed to be a bad thing, in this case it's a major offence. This is because Soundwave has entered 'Princess Lee' in a PBEM that he is also in (the Great Napoleonic Battles game).

As most of you are aware, Soundwave was recently given an indication of how strongly the community feels about cheating. Because of this he cannot claim that he wasn't warned that cheating of any sort is strongly frowned upon.

Due to the breach of trust involved in this offence, I believe that Soundwave should be banned from all the PBEMs that he is currently in, and not be allowed into further games on this site.

Thoughts anyone?


I should also add that on my request Warvoid checked several other posters, and cleared all of them of possible DL status.

	20-03-2002 14:09									#2
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Has SW had anything to say about it? Its not just some friend of his logging in from his machine?

Although I guess that could create "questions" in a PBEM game too...



On the DL question I won't be needing my Warvoid login anymore. (Somebody had to say it )

	20-03-2002 14:44									#3
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Has SW had anything to say about it? Its not just some friend of his logging in from his machine?

A few days ago I was chatting to Soundwave on MSN Messenger and he was boasting about how a girl had joined his game. When I asked him if he knew her, he replied that he didn't.

	20-03-2002 14:52									#4
	Oh no!!! not again... Got spare money?

I guess that, as for the last "problem", it's better to wait for Soundwave's explanations...


And Case, who did you think my DL was ?? Ming ???

	20-03-2002 14:54									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Well, too bad some people can't just stick to the rules...

And really bad because, apart from that, Soundwave is fun to play with/against...

	20-03-2002 16:39									#6
	Suffering from ads?

While this is a really bad offence Soundwave obviously didnt think this through because his alter ego chose turkey, i mean come on all you do is choose the two most powerful, well thats what i would do

But anyway i agree with case that he should be banned, i dont think he would have won, i would have kicked his @ss

But bad soundwave!

	20-03-2002 19:30									#7
	Why dont they learn? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK Soundwave, you had your chance. DL's just aren't cool... at all. We are trying to have fun here and you are messing things up by foolin' with this.

I now have serious doubts about your last incedent as well, and what have you done to restore any faith? Nothing.

Do I want to play with someone that does this? No. Do others? Most likely, no. When all you have is trust amongst your rivals, and cheating is so rampant, you'll find people don't care to play with cheaters and the like.

Now I dont care that Princess Lee and you chose to command 2 civs that arent working together. It is just unsavory behaviour all around.

You've now been caught red handed. What have you to say for yourself? And dont tell me something like "you guys take too long, I just wanted to speed things up"... thats nonsense. You are going to need a very good explanation to get yourself out of this one.

-FMK.

Get out the magical Ban Rod.

	21-03-2002 02:57									#8
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Time for an OT tradition to make an appearance.

DEEEE EEEEEEEL!!!

*does the DL dance*

Frankly, I'm amazed someone didn't do this yet! Shame on you all!

	21-03-2002 03:23									#9
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wait dont ban him until he can explain this for himself

	21-03-2002 05:19									#10
	Dropkick his ass the same way as the third reich Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Oh man oh man, tisk tisk tisk . This is definatly not cool, I mean I was all revved up and ready to kick some Napolean butt and this comes along. Now the PBEM will never take place. Oh well, life goes on. Does anyone want to take Soundwave's place?

Also, what does DL stand for anyways?

	21-03-2002 07:47									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes, the IP's of Soundwave and Princess Lee are an exact match, along with the ISP's, which confirms it without a doubt.

Jimmy - DL = Double-Login

DL's are ok, IMHO, if you don't do any harm with them. Hell, even I had a few of them years ago. But when you use them to cheat and powergame, it becomes uncool.

I sent a message to Markos suggesting that Soundwave and his DL receive a ban. How long that ban would be I left to his discretion.

	21-03-2002 08:11									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: DL's are ok, IMHO, if you don't do any harm with them. Hell, even I had a few of them years ago. But when you use them to cheat and powergame, it becomes uncool.

I'm in complete agreement. I've never been bothered by DLs before, BUT using them to cheat in a PBEM game is something entirely different! This act of treachery suggests the possibility that he may have been cheating in all PBEMs thusfar. What's to stop him from going into the rules and changing the stats on his units during his turn to make for some major conquests?

But I don't want to jump to any conclusions. Where is Soundwave? What is his explanation? Why did he do it? He was Britain and Turkey, two civs that were probably allies in that game against the French so why couldn't he have volunteered as Soundwave for both? Please don't ban him from the forums yet, I'm curious to what he has to say.

	21-03-2002 12:39									#13
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I want to hear his explanations too, but I think he is away for a while, as ANZAC is playing for him in the PBEMs.

	22-03-2002 03:47									#14
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Once Soundwave is kicked out of his PBEMs, I won't be continuing as his civ in those games. There are just too many! I wonder how he gets the time

	22-03-2002 06:29									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You should let him have a say before canning him, but such an infraction goes against the spirt of the games.

	22-03-2002 12:25									#16
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So I come back from my hoilday with my girlfriend, lazy in hot pools of Hanmer Springs to find this again!!

Shame on your case, you are not a very good person, you would rather shoot your mouth off, than ask me again, and Yes i do know her... she's my girlfriend, and i'm sure i am allowed to play from her computer and her from mine, i think its stuipd, i'm sick of accusations, coming from Case all the time! You are not the Net Police, if you dont like it ask me, you are a stuipd little man!

I thought someone would have asked me?

NO, you all think oh, its fact lets ban him!

I have tried to lighten up scenarios, add a bit more fun, try some humour, but i always seem to be cut down by the serious, i major in history, its been writen, so in PBEM's you can change it, be inovatived.

So what do i do now how do i prove i'm not guilty? Hmm i know orgnized leanne (my g/f.. ok? leanne_milton@hotmail.com) on the net same time?? Why should i have to put her into the mess that Case created, she wanted to try it and play for the first time, people like Case makes ppl afriad of coming here! Its not toterable! And Warvoid, i would have thought more of a moderator, did you e-mail me, ask me? No... I would like to lay a complaint if i can do it, it will proably fall on deaf ears, but i want to do just that!!

So much coming back from a hoilday relaxed!!


Damn, why does everyone have to be like all serious 24/7.. but never mind... it'll fall on deaf eyes again!

	22-03-2002 12:30									#17
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I don't understand for the life of me why someone would want his girlfriend addicted to civ2?

	22-03-2002 15:06									#18
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Sorry Soundwave, but I don't believe you.

When I asked you on MSN Messenger if you knew 'Princess Lee' you said that you didn't. Why on earth would say this if she is actually your girlfriend?

This is especially relevent as you had recently been warned how seriously any dubious actions are taken. If 'Princess Lee' is your GF, why didn't she say so when she turned up, and why didn't you introduce her? You've been on Apolyton for 8 months now, and that's plenty of time to have seen that the mods look out for DLs by tracking IP adresses.

Seeing as you're notoriously impatient in PBEMs, and have numerous DLs on CFC (LCPD, Sepp Dietrich and Von Falkenhayn are the ones I've noticed) I really don't see why I or anyone else should believe you.

Last edited by Case on 22-03-2002 at 15:34

	22-03-2002 17:46									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, once again it would have been better to talk about it with Soundwave BEFORE posting a thread here, I think... And, if my memory isn't betraying me, that was one of the conclusions of the last similar "affair"...

Sorry guys, but this story is just s**t!! I don't care whether someone is overly suspicious or another one is cheating (not that I would accept such a behaviour!!), but the whole is coming down to the point where I stop having fun!! And having fun is the only reason why I come here...

So what now??? Am I to stop playing because of this???

	23-03-2002 00:20									#20
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Yea what now, do we boycot the games?

In civfanatics Case, i have a problem with my computer, if i delete the temp files, it gets rid of my id on civfanatics, i have never got a chance to pm a moderator or thunderfall, i'd love it, i e-mailed him but no reply, i can full well prove that she is real, like met online at the some time, but to case, that would make it i have two computers? so how do i win? this is ridulous i come here to have fun, to make scenarios not get pushed around on the net and some of you ppl tell me, i've done this and that, and i'm sick of it, i have stopped having fun now, coz of Case!

And i agree with Cyrion, this is s**t! I have sent a complant to Markos.

Last edited by Soundwave on 23-03-2002 at 02:54

	23-03-2002 00:54									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Attacking another poster is pretty low Soundwave. Case is a valuable member of the SLeague, you're way out of line insulting him like that.

You should be more concerned with trying to prove your innocence. I don't know what the details of the 1st incident were, but Cases accusation this time seems well-founded. There was no reason for you to deny you knew Princess Lee was during your original conversation. Now that Warvoid discovered that both you and "she" were using the same computer, you claim she is your girlfriend. I'm not involved in any of the PBEM's myself, so I don't have any vested interest in this, but I can see why the other posters are frustrated. The above situation indicates a clear contradiction and suggests that you were lying.

If you are innocent, there must be a reasonable explanation you can give. If not, just simply admit you were cheating and stop with the charade.

	23-03-2002 01:04									#22
	Just another thought Increase Your PM Length

Playing any scenario, let alone a PBEM, is not the way a newbie should start his(her) civ2 experience.

	23-03-2002 02:11									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm sick of this, what right do you people have?

I am a person and a person has rights and so does she, how dare you say she does not exist, you people make me sick!

i have never cheated and never will, its stupid to cheat it ruins a game, civ2 is a game to have fun with to play and i thought pbem are fun at the start, you people have turned them into something esle?

I think Cyrion is the only other that sees my point, and i will not give up my innocents, ban me, ingore me, but i thought you came here to have fun, not cheat, and be humous as well!! Correct me if i'm wrong?

I dont know why i said i didn't know her, maybe to see what case thought of her i dont know, i apolygise for that, but she is my g/f and is real, why would i go to the extent of making an e-mail and everything, even ask her shes on msn, she came from england and was born in Grimbsy, she says its a famous fishing port and her dads in the airforce, check with the British Ambassy if you are that worried, maybe i should do that to prove to you all!! but why should i, to prove i am right, when i know i am?

	23-03-2002 04:48									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Soundwave ...even ask her shes on msn, she came from england and was born in Grimbsy, she says its a famous fishing port and her dads in the airforce, check with the British Ambassy if you are that worried, maybe i should do that to prove to you all!! but why should i, to prove i am right, when i know i am?

I really don't know what to believe, but Soundwave, that still doesn't prove your innocence because if you are her, then ofcourse Princess Lee will answer what you just told us all!

	23-03-2002 04:51									#25
	Remove this text

Just to clarify, the first cheating offense was when you 'hacked' around someone's password in a PBEM game to see what they were up too.

In the future instead of creating different DL's on CivFan when your computer erases the cookie, maybe you should write the password down somewhere.

Honestly I don't know if there is anyway for you to prove that Princess Lee exists. If you both log on at the same time someone could just say that you figured out how to use your password and had someone else log in at the same time as you. I think this is a no win situation, there will always be doubt by the people who accuse you and those who believe you. Myself? I am in the middle, I jumped on the bandwagon at first but after thinking about I believe there is the possibility that you are telling the truth. Honestly I think it is a little far fetched for your girlfriend to want to play a PBEM and become a Civ GEEK like us. Every girlfriend I have had has hated this game because it has the ability to turn me into a zombie sitting slack jawed in front of the monitor. Maybe I just need to find a British girl, huh.

	23-03-2002 05:13									#26
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Well, no smoking gun, but a good circumstantial case. And a previous record. Enough to convict in most jurisdictions.

	23-03-2002 05:15									#27
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Look, i'm here to have fun too, but the bottom line is that I also have a job here. My job as a mod requires that I report something suspicious. Which I did.

I checked it all out to make sure what Case was saying, in fact, proved to be true.

The bottom line of this is that, if the IP's match, it's considered a DL. I don't care if it's your wife, girlfriend, mother, aunt, or God himself. If the IP's match, it's classified as a DL and banned. Simple as that.

I do not have a personal opinion here. I am a moderator. I am pure logic. I am the Terminator. I follow facts and logic, nothing else. Comprende?

Now I am not going to deal out bans or whatnot, that's up to Markos' discretion. So rant and rave all you want, but if this gets out of hand, i'll make sure a proper punishment is dealt out.

	23-03-2002 06:11									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

..

Last edited by Princess Lee on 23-03-2002 at 06:19

	23-03-2002 06:37									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jimmywax I am in the middle, I jumped on the bandwagon at first but after thinking about I believe there is the possibility that you are telling the truth. Honestly I think it is a little far fetched for your girlfriend to want to play a PBEM and become a Civ GEEK like us. Every girlfriend I have had has hated this game because it has the ability to turn me into a zombie sitting slack jawed in front of the monitor. Maybe I just need to find a British girl, huh.

I am VERY offended by this comment....................i admit sean spends too much time on this........more than with me sometimes!!! but now im used to it and wanted to actually join in my mans hobby. so basically coz i know him u are sayin that u are takin this away from me? .............ive watched him play and i quite like the look of it as im into computer games too so its not far fetched at all, u know this is not just a male game!!! or are u being sexist????

	23-03-2002 07:50									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Princess Lee I am VERY offended by this comment....................i admit sean spends too much time on this........more than with me sometimes!!! but now im used to it and wanted to actually join in my mans hobby. so basically coz i know him u are sayin that u are takin this away from me? .............ive watched him play and i quite like the look of it as im into computer games too so its not far fetched at all, u know this is not just a male game!!! or are u being sexist????

It would be if it wasn't so . Still, it IS pretty !