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Bolleck
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Düsseldorf, Germany
Mar 2002
time: 06:18
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My support troops are settler and workers.
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BillChin
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On the first turn, post a minimum garrison of one infantry in case of counter attack. Leave two panzers outside the city. Send the rest forward. The city will probably flip and then the two panzers can take it back the same turn. Once the roads are secure have no garrison at all. After all twenty squares in the city radius are in your cultural border, put the garrison back in. With panzers, that might be as soon as one or two turns. Once the resistance is quelled, rush build a temple or library (whatever is cheaper for your civ).
Whatever you do, do not leave a large garrison in a city in danger of flipping. You need two units for each citizen, plus additional troops for each square in enemy culture. So for a pop six city with 15 squares in enemy culture you are looking at maybe 30 or 40 troops to prevent a flip. With 30 or 40 troops you can take another five cities. The choice seems pretty simple.
Bringing settlers and razing is also a good option, especially for cities near the enemy capital.
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
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My ideal is to take out an enemy civ so quickly there isn't time for any significant risk of culture flips, or at least to reduce the enemy to distant island possessions too far away to spur rebellion easily. In the latter case, using gold to rush build temples (or, if playing a scientific civ, libraries) to build up some culture, and leaving about three units for garrison duty generally holds the risk of flipping down to a level I consider acceptable (at least as long as the war zone isn't too far from my capital). And with a big conquered city, I need the culture to expand the city's borders whether I need it to help control the city or not.
In regard to garrisoning, for the duration of the war, in the industrial and modern eras, I usually use somewhere around two to four units per city. Mostly, these are either wounded units that need a place to rest anyhow or obsolete slow-moving units that wouldn't be worth a lot on the offensive. (As a result, garrison sizes depend a lot on how many such units I have.) Such forces aren't enough to put down the resistance quickly, but there's plenty of time for that after I've won the war.
Of course this assumes I don't go on the offensive that late in the game without a clearly superior if not overwhelming balance of force. If I found myself fighting for my life against a culturally superior enemy, razing any cities I managed to capture might look a lot more attractive.
Nathan
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Elucidus
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I've been capturing size 13 and 14 cities without any flips here recently. One of the first ones I took out was the capitol maybe that helped, but yeah I usually rush buy a temple.
Also I just flipped a russian city on the other side of the water. The corner of my culture touched the corner of theirs...and they were right up against a Babylonian city and it's culture halfway surrounded them. Go figure.
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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:18
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If the city has no culture there is no alternative(short of screwing around with the save file).
If the city has culture, but is in a crappy location, you can disband the city.
If the city has culture, will most likely flip, unless of course you stack your entire attacking force in it, you can park 2 attack units outside, leave none inside, and if it flips back take the city back. Replace losses as you get them.
If the city has culture, will most likely flip, and has self destructed, you can take it and sit there with a city that will never use its terrain, you can disband it and pass the unhappiness on to one of your good cities, or you can give it away to another ai.
razing is the easiest and most effective way(and parking 2 units outside the city to take it back if it flips isnt the most intuitive thing to do), if you take a city chances are you will have to rebuild everything anyways, infrastructure the ai pillaged instead of using its units to blunt your attack included.
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chiefpaco
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Canada
Feb 2002
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by planetfall
Thanks all for the ideas, I have been experimenting and this seems like the best strategy:
1. capture city quickly without bombardment
{lose a few more units but gain improvements}
2. set production to Temple or Library
3. Key I was forgetting, turn on city governor to manage moods
4. put 1 weak unit in city {warrior, spearman, horse, etc}
5. put 3-5 armor units within 1 turn stricking distance to retake the city
6. turn every citizen to entertainer
7. try to find cannon/artillery/gallery/etc you can disband into the resisting city
so you can hurry production
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Some comments for some of your points:
1. I prefer to bombard to lower my casualty count & especially if I don't end up capturing the city, it's pretty useful. It doesn't really help your flip factor since cultural buildings don't transfer, unless you hit the marketplace & you'll miss out on extra happiness. However, the AI will do more drafting if you park outside the city for a few turns. So.... either way...
3,6. I think once you set your governor on, you can't turn all your citizens to entertainers - he'll change them back. This is pretty dangerous cause he can't deal with resistors becoming unhappy citizens & disordering the city, which doubles the flipping chance.
4. I often save conscript defenders for the city. To push the city's pop/unit ratio, I put in some outdated units too. I don't mind so much about losing conscripts & ancient swordsmen. This scares the AI a little, I think, cause I'm not sure if it sometimes considers the number of units in the city rather than the quality. If they do attack, they have to use extra attackers to get it, even if they probably win.
It's kind of cool calling on my swordsmen in the modern era to be my fun police. Ooh, who can be so upset when those guys with cool-looking swords are around!
Keeping cities isn't always useful under most govt types since it could be so far away to be very productive. So a settler for a new city would be just as good, in most cases. However, when I'm running communism, they're more valuable since they could be my next best city in time. So, it's a bit govt dependent too.
I don't see flipping as much with 1.17 & keep most of my cities. But it could also be because I try to at least keep even on culture & then I have few problems. Being superior in culture & military over a civ should be an easy victory.
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
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In my current game (1.16f patch), 25 years (five turns) ago, I took out all eleven of China's cities on the main continent in a single turn. (The battle was modern armor vs. infantry, with my cavalry mopping up obsolete units.) I've had two culture flips since then and had to retake the cities (unfortunately, China has an island right off the mainland), but consider what I have in return (not counting libraries and a couple temples I've built myself).
Note that I'm putting coal plants in parentheses since my Hoover Dam makes them essentially irrelevant. Also, since I built the Pyramids and captured the Art of War, I have granaries and barracks in all my cities whether I would have captured them or not.
Shanghai, made my new capital by a great leader:
-- Size 19 (after producing a settler to transfer surplus population)
-- Marketplace, Aqueduct, Factory, Bank, Courthouse, Hospital, Police Station, Smith's Trading Company, (Coal Plant)
Beijing
-- Size 17 (will stabilize at 16 once it grows enough to feed itself).
-- Marketplace, Courthouse, Factory, Bank, Hospital, Police Station, Great Library, Art of War
Tatung
-- Size 16
-- Aqueduct, Bank, Hospital, Police Station
Chengdu
-- Size 15
-- Marketplace, Aqueduct, Bank, Factory, Hospital
Xinjian
-- Size 13
-- Marketplace, Courthouse, Bank, Hospital
Canton (one of the cities that flipped)
-- Size 18
-- Marketplace, Courthouse, Bank, Hospital, Coastal Fortress, Magellan's Voyage, Copernicus's Observatory
Tientsin
-- Size 13
-- Courthouse, Aqueduct, Bank, Factory, Hospital, Harbor, (Coal Plant)
Hangchow
-- Size 11
-- Bank, Hospital, Harbor, Police Station
Anyang (the other one that flipped)
-- Size 10
-- Aqueduct, Harbor
Nanking
-- Size 9
-- Aqueduct, Courthouse, Marketplace, Harbor
Tsingtao
-- Size 6 (will shrink to 5 before expanding to feed itself)
-- Aqueduct, Harbor
There can be definite advantages to keeping cities instead of razing them, especially if you can come up with the power for a blitzkreig that doesn't give the AI time to draft a lot of people and make its cities unhappy. It would take centuries to bring replacement cities up to the same level some of my Chinese conquests are at, unless I would be willing to spend a lot of gold I don't want to take away from research (and which I'd have significantly less of without income from the captured cities' marketplaces and banks).
Nathan
P.S. After gobbling up mainland China, I ate England for dessert. Their cities weren't as valuable, but none flipped on me, and none ever will now that I've used a newly built troop transport to capture their island city of Oxford. 
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planetfall
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Incoming from CO
Jan 2002
time: 22:18
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Hey, great responses. Thanks.
ACooper It seems from the responses here that some people are having problem and some are not. (I myself rarely lose a city)
Rather I think people are still overreacting from the flips in original version up to 1.16.
My "problem" was not with flipping but with the campaign stalling by not bringing along police units and wasting panzers for police action.
chiefpaco 1. I prefer to bombard to lower my casualty count & especially if I don't end up capturing the city, it's
pretty useful.
I used to always bombard, and would not invade until city was down to 1-3 citizen size. Problems with that were: 1) slow, 2) AI has time to reinforce, 3) tedious, and mainly 4) lose all the city improvement goodies.
What do you mean don't take the city? I don't know the appropriate military term for units, but not taking the city is not usually a problem. For example, last campaign, French had about 6 cities clustered to the south, smallest was size 10. There were 3 more cities about 13 tiles to north in mountain terrain. I used to try to block horsemen and calvary by moving a solid wall of armor. This time I tried something different which was very effective. Precampaign my boarder line was [sea][city][3 tiles][city][3tiles][city][2 tiles][lake].
I allocated 60 panzers to the south. {The other 60 were in the north for the English}.
I had 6 stacks of 10 panzers each. {brigade?}
3 stacks went south, and 3 went north. When AI moved units out of cities, they were primary target and cities were secondary targets. With this much armor the AI tried to stack 12-15 defenders, no problem. One city in south and one in north did not fall on first attempt, simply pulled a few panzers from one unit to take care of the job. I lost a couple panzers attacking units fortified in the mountains, but with infrastructure capable pumping out 10 new armor each turn, no problem.
3,6. I think once you set your governor on, you can't turn all your citizens to entertainers - he'll change them back. This is pretty dangerous
Never had that happen. Maybe I didn't explain well enough. My steps are: 1) all citizens to entertainers, 2) turn on mood governor, 3) complete turn, 4) next turn: repeat steps 1..3 until no resisters are left. You are right if on the second turn you do not reassign workers, governor will give citizens productive tasks.
Forget to mention: another useful strategy is to change production to settler, combo of starving, reducing citizen base, and camping police does work to reduce flip probability.
4. It's kind of cool calling on my swordsmen in the modern era to be my fun police.
My philosophy is police are the highest value unit available in one turn. What is really fun to see is to have a couple cities production up where they can pump out knights in one turn.
Seeing police dressed up as knights in the modern era is hilarious.
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20-03-2002 20:05
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