20-03-2002 21:57									#1
	Do you tend to help weak civs? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I almost always do. I always go after the strongest and when I have to many cities on a large or huge maps and I give the newly conquered cities to the weakest civs. Do you do that? I mean, do you help weak civs or you obliterate them on first sight?

Spec.

	20-03-2002 22:14									#2
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Yes I love to help out weak civs, by adding them to my glorious empire.

	20-03-2002 22:17									#3
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If they're close enough to be productive cities - they're instant toast. If they're way over in never-never land I'm their best friend.

	20-03-2002 22:30									#4
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Yes, for the diplomatic victory!

	20-03-2002 22:35									#5
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Sometimes I help them for balance of power reasons. I give them excess strategic resources for free and sometimes suitable cities. I would like to give them strong defensive units. Not on my own continent, though.

	20-03-2002 22:39									#6
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I love getting those smaller guys to ally with me against a larger opponent, usually right before I sue for peace. Then I supply as much coin, resources, and workers as I can afford to help them fight my battles for me.

	20-03-2002 23:18									#7
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Makes me think of the old Civ 1 tutorial "general principle." Crush weaker civs, make peace with stronger ones, or something to that effect.

I've heard people talk about making "client states" but I've never been able to get this to happen. In fact, the only time I've ever gotten tribute is during a peace negotiation with a clearly prostrate enemy.

Even the best treated rival seems to become ungrateful as the game progresses. Let's just kill them, I think.

	21-03-2002 00:21									#8
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If they're beside a strong civ, I like to give them resources and tech so that they can compete. It keeps the other civ from taking them over and becoming bigger and when I finally get around to smashing that guy, I'll have a nice ally to rush in from the other side. A lot of times, that weakens my ally, too, and then I can take his territory when the war is over.

	21-03-2002 00:22									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

quoted from disney's "Education For Death" (anti-nazi war propaganda):

"the world belongs to the strong! and to the brutal! the rabbit is a coward and deserves to die, i spit on the rabbit. I hate the rabbit, there is no room for weaklings"

	21-03-2002 01:18									#10
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The problem with giving week civs your captured cities, is they usually manage to lose them. Everytime I've tried it the city either flips, is traded, or is conquered by the Civ I took it from in the first place.

Once you have all of their tech, and have sold them as a contact, and they have no $ there is no point in letting them live.

	21-03-2002 02:26									#11
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Yes and no. As some have already said, it depends on their proximity to my empire. If they're neighbors then I usually subjugate them fairly early in the game. If they are located far from my borders then I may help them but this depends on a couple factors as well. First, are they located near a rival civ, if they are then I will pump the weaker civ up with just enough gold and tech to be a nuisance to the rival civ. If they're out in the middle of nowhere or on a small island by themselves I will give them just enough that they remain on friendly terms with me and stay far enough behind me in tech that they're not a threat. This way if war breaks out they are less likely to side against me.

	21-03-2002 02:30									#12
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Because I rarely go after stronger nations head on, I usually give weaker civs on other continents techs and resources. If possible, I'll station troops in their borders and sign MPPs with them so that I can get an excuse to go after stronger civs. Why do I do all this? I guess I just like to root for the underdogs.

	21-03-2002 03:58									#13
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I tend to help weaker civs - like the Romans - as I am normally crushing the biggest other civ and it is nice to have help to distract their forces. Also I don't want to have to leave units behind to guard all these new cities. The solution - donate to a weak civ, help them get stronger to put up a better fight, and help me finish destroying the other civ.

	21-03-2002 05:49									#14
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I usually help them out, but then again, I usually pay them to go to way with my enemies which makes them the weakest civ. And if they don't like me, or don't trade fairly with me, then I conquer them.

	21-03-2002 07:37									#15
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I try not to, but if they're really close to me and they keep violating my borders, and I have to keep warning them. I finally get sick of it and kill them off. But I have noticed since I downloaded the patch is the AI does trade tech a lot. I am just glad I can stay technologically ahead of the AI.

	21-03-2002 07:46									#16
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Usual if they don't pay up in human sacrafices, then they die. Of course they can pay me in bananas.

	21-03-2002 07:52									#17
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The best thing to do is help the weak civs crush the stronger ones. If they are next to the civ you are targeting for war, you may gain a Right of Passage Agreement, pass through their land and attack from a different front. Giving them some old technology and spare resources also helps them to become a potential ally in this war.

In one situation, I was the French. I managed to crush the Romans and Egyptians before expanding overseas (I would only fight one of the two. It was a bit of a see-saw effect going from war against one to war against another)

My next target, Germany had an MPP with their neighbours, the Persians who equally shared their continent. Since warring the Germans would precipitate a war with Persia, I decided to form alliances with everyone else. China, England and India all were weaker than Germany and Persia, but still had enough power to help me out. Germany hadn't expanded overseas, save for one or two towns on the useless tundra-ridden archipelagos close to the poles. India and England managed to absorb them into their empires (or utterly destroy them). As for the mainland, I took every German city there and finished them off. I took out Persia on their mainland while everyone else took out their useless island outposts.

With Germany and Persia out of the way, I decided that I would target England next. Unfortunately, the Chinese chose to side with the English. Fortunately, India were more than happy to enter the war on my side. I managed to crush England and China on their mainland, but their island outposts still remain (India helped by blocking their shipping lanes). Once China and England are gone, so too will India be, and so my world conquest will be complete.

I wouldn't have so thoroughly terminated the Germans and Persians in this story if I didn't have the weaker civs as allies against them. Using alliances, you can systematically wipe out each civ one by one from strongest to weakest. Then usually, even if the weakest gained power from the wars you dragged them into, they won't stand a chance against you and your new world order.

Usually, I'm not a warmonger bent on world domination, as I prefer building and science, but when I am commanding a huge superpowered war machine, I'll always try and use everyone to systematically eliminate all enemies

SPOILER WARNING!!! DO NOT READ ON IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED STARCRAFT BROOD WAR YET!!!

those of you who play Starcraft, Sarah Kerrigan, Queen of Blades 'used' everyone to reclaim the Zerg swarms, overthrow the UED and pretty much become queen of the universe. If it worked for her, it can work for anyone.

Last edited by Jethro83 on 22-03-2002 at 03:19

	21-03-2002 07:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Usual if they don't pay up in human sacrafices, then they die. Of course they can pay me in bananas.

What is with all this 'bananas' crap. What point am I missing here? Could someone please clarify what this obsession with bananas on the Apolyton forums is all about?

	21-03-2002 08:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal What is with all this 'bananas' crap. What point am I missing here? Could someone please clarify what this obsession with bananas on the Apolyton forums is all about?

I forgot who and when it started, but it is a running joke. One of the many good qualities of this forum.

	21-03-2002 08:24									#20
	Doh! Spoiler Ettiquette... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Re. Starcraft Comment... out of courtesy to those that have have not completed it yet, you should edit your post with a *spoiler* warning. It's just bad form to give away an ending. Those who know already know, and those who don't will be missing out on the surprise.

R.

	21-03-2002 08:32									#21
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal What is with all this 'bananas' crap. What point am I missing here? Could someone please clarify what this obsession with bananas on the Apolyton forums is all about?

Check out the Harry Belafonte forum for banana-free viewing.

R.

*spoiler warning*
(That's the "Yes, we have no bananas..." guy.)

	21-03-2002 08:58									#22
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Yeah, but it is easier to have neighbors go to war with your enemies (unless you are your nemies neighbors). Then just continue the trend and it weakens everyone except you. What are they going to do come all of the way to the other side of the world or fight with their enemies at their back door?

This of course rests on the fact that you eliminate your neighbors right off the bat.

	22-03-2002 03:17									#23
	Re: Doh! Spoiler Ettiquette... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Big R Re. Starcraft Comment... out of courtesy to those that have have not completed it yet, you should edit your post with a *spoiler* warning. It's just bad form to give away an ending. Those who know already know, and those who don't will be missing out on the surprise. R.

Oops. My bad.

To all those concerned, I have placed a bold spoiler alert above the spoiler in larger than regular text. The text size of the spoiler is also smaller than regular.

	22-03-2002 04:08									#24
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Help them to balance out relative strength.

Crush them if they have something I want.

R

	22-03-2002 04:37									#25
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Ahh, you end up having to crush 'em any way because they turn on you too much.

	22-03-2002 07:04									#26
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In CivII I used to keep some single city civs around to trade with - my favourite being barbarian-captured cities (I'd bribe all their units).

I've been trying to keep small civs alive in Civ III, but I'm not sure I'm gaining from it.

"What is with all this 'bananas' crap. What point am I missing here? Could someone please clarify what this obsession with bananas on the Apolyton forums is all about?"

Sometimes people just latch onto something odd. I just want to know how far Bananas is from Reading. Maybe 42 units would be a good answer - although with great consternation it wasn't for the Hubble constant.

	22-03-2002 07:05									#27
	Old Habits Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In CivII I used to keep some single city civs around to trade with - my favourite being barbarian-captured cities (I'd bribe all their units).

I've been trying to keep small civs alive in Civ III, but I'm not sure I'm gaining from it.

"What is with all this 'bananas' crap. What point am I missing here? Could someone please clarify what this obsession with bananas on the Apolyton forums is all about?"

Sometimes people just latch onto something odd. I just want to know how far Bananas is from Reading. Maybe 42 units would be a good answer - although we found, with great consternation, it wasn't for the Hubble constant.

	22-03-2002 07:22									#28
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in my current game i have been allies with the iroquios and france for the duration of the game, i have crushed china, the zulu and the babylonians on my own continent. Japan was to the north and i have been sitting on a super army.

i have the chinese, babylonians, and zulu to three or four cities each and make a nice little turn by turn stipend selling them my useless luxuries and outdated techs.

i like to tech farm the weak so i can use my military to crush the strong.

	22-03-2002 07:44									#29
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I should add, that if I do want to crush a civ, I do it later on in the game, I hate it how when I crush a civ a new city of their's pops up on the other side of the map.

	22-03-2002 07:59									#30
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Yeah but that means you get these cities, free of charge. Someone else will take care of them, especially with a little inscentive.