21-03-2002 15:51									#1
	All civs get industrial & commercial bonus? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Are all civs getting the bonuses or are the industrial and commercial civs getting bonuses on top of the city size bonus?

Is this a bug or undocumented feature?

	21-03-2002 18:01									#2
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Not sure what you mean by bonuses. Could you give an example?

	21-03-2002 18:07									#3
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When a town becomes a city, it gets one extra shield in the city square. Assuming it was founded on a tile that already has a shield. It also gets one additional commerce. When it becomes a metropolis, it gets more of the same.

It is my understanding that only industrial civs are suppose to get the shield bonus for city size and commercial civs get the commerce bonus. However, ALL civs recieve this bonus.

	21-03-2002 18:45									#4
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Oh I see, you're right. My understanding is the same and I believe it's even written in the manual.

Just curious, what version are you using or more precisely are you using the 1.17f patch? I wonder if this has something to do with the patch?

	21-03-2002 19:10									#5
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1.17f....... it definatly did it in 1.16f but before that i was too confused with other aspects of the game to remember.

Seems like a bug that nobody cares about because it is such a neat thing.

	21-03-2002 19:13									#6
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Didn't realize it was also evident in 1.16f. Guess I was too involved in conquering the world to notice!!

But seriously, if this is the case than it should be corrected. Why would I pick a civ with industrial and/or commercial traits if everyone is receiving the bonuses anyway? I'll have to do a little playtesting myself. Thanks for mentioning this problem. I agree that it was probably not noticed before due to all the other problems.

	21-03-2002 22:28									#7
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All civs get a +1 bonus when a town becomes a city.

When it becomes a metropolis, however, industrial and commercial civs get an additional +2 while other civs only get an additional +1.

	21-03-2002 23:22									#8
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Well there you go then!!

Thanks to Mike Breitkreutz from Firaxis for the speedy reply to this question!

	22-03-2002 07:34									#9
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Thankyou for clearing that up Mike

	22-03-2002 08:06									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS All civs get a +1 bonus when a town becomes a city. When it becomes a metropolis, however, industrial and commercial civs get an additional +2 while other civs only get an additional +1.

That seems to weaken the industrial and cemmercial traits a little. I understood that when a town becomes a city is when their bonuses come into effect. Becoming a metropolis comes much later, hence, less production during that time. However, I only go with industrious for the.......%$^ terraforming( not right i know) bonus

	22-03-2002 08:56									#11
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I agree that it is not much of a bonus. +2 at both city and metropolis size would make alot more sense.

Better yet would be giving them both cheaper buildings. Factories and manufacturing plants for industrial. Marketplaces and banks for commercial.

	22-03-2002 10:23									#12
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quote: Originally posted by watorrey I agree that it is not much of a bonus. +2 at both city and metropolis size would make alot more sense. Better yet would be giving them both cheaper buildings. Factories and manufacturing plants for industrial. Marketplaces and banks for commercial.

Those are great ideas. They would make both of those traits far more useful.

	22-03-2002 20:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by watorrey I agree that it is not much of a bonus. +2 at both city and metropolis size would make alot more sense. Better yet would be giving them both cheaper buildings. Factories and manufacturing plants for industrial. Marketplaces and banks for commercial.

I definitely agree, would make the traits even more distinctive and could change our actual preferences ...

industrial: cheaper factories only (otherwise too good!)
commercial: yes, banks and marketplaces
religious: good as it is (cheaper temples, cathedrals, 1 turn anarchy)
scientific: good as it is, but less science corruption could be awarded so they could actually 'feel smarter and progress relatively faster than other civs
expansionist (as it is + start with 2 cities or cheaper granaries)
militaristic (good as it is, though one extra HP for each unit might be included --> would become very powerful, but other modificated traits are too)


AJ

	22-03-2002 23:19									#14
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AJ,

Good ideas. I think that Expansionists should start out with 3 settlers, 3 workers, and 1 scout. Either that or allow them to build settlers for the same price as workers, allowing them to actually Expand more quickly than other civs. This powerful beginning makes up for the fact that their trait is pretty useless after the first hundred turns.

As for militaristic, giving all of their units one extra HP would probably make them too poerful. How about giving their elite units one extra HP, but keeping the original number of HP for conscripts, regular, and veteran units. Also reduce the discontent produced by using the draft.

Maybe you should use your ideas and start a new thread. Maybe Firazis will see it. At least people will discuss it.

Last edited by nationalist on 22-03-2002 at 23:26

	22-03-2002 23:46									#15
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I didn't realize this either. The industrial and commercial civs should gain advantages at both town -> city and city -> metro. +2 is fine.

Cheaper factories is too much of a boost. Industrious gives a nice boost in the beginning and again when you discover steam power. I don't think it needs more.

Commercial could use a boost - 25% discount on markets/banks would do the trick, I think.

Expansionists should get cheap granaries. Extra settlers is too powerful... besides, they get 'em from huts.

Militaristic maybe should get some free unit support (a bonus, irrespective of government type).

Religious and Scientific are fine, although I'd like to be able to choose my "free" advance per age when I'm scientific. No biggie there.

-Arrian's $.02