25-01-2001 23:33									#1
	Regions, States, etc. Support Apolyton

I realize this topic has gone around over and over, but I think I have some new ideas for it.

Regions will be made up of several cities and their territories. THey can range from 5-30 cities in size. Each region will be run either by an elected governor, or the leader of that nation. when under a republican form of government, regions will always be created and maintained. When under that form of government, regions will be as follows:

Each region will be run its own leader (governor). The governor will act under the leadership and direction of the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the President. Each region will gather its own taxes, pass its own laws, and create and maintain its own militia; of course under the direction of the national senate. when gathering taxes, a region will pet its own taxes into its own treasury, then after that, a certain percentage of those taxes will be deposited into the national treasury.
That regions militia will only act within that region, unlesss the while country requires its assistance. The militia will not be used in the offensive, only for defense and security of that militias region, and the whole country. When passing laws, the leader make a written copy, send it to the national senate, if two-thirds agree with the proposed law, then it goes back to that region, and the law will be placed. Each region will provide two representatives, one for the House of Representatives, and the other of the Senate. Each rep. will have one vote, so each region will have two votes total in the say of the whole nation. The national senate will act under the direction of the President. THey will handel national problems, while the House (of representatives) will handel international problems, the militia, and national military. The president will proside over both, but may not do anything without two-thirds consent of the proper legislature (either House or Senate). Also, neither the House or Senate may do anything without the consent of the President, so to create an equal, 'checks and balances'. I realize I got alot of this government stuff from the US constitution, but that is what a Republic is! The president may also replace each regional governor at any time, but not without a proper excuse, or two-thirds of the consent of the senate.

Regions would also work under a form of Democracy.

	26-01-2001 00:51									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Diablo the only reason that I would want regions to be included in the game is to reduce micromanagement in every city. Instead I could tell one region to maximaze food output. Another to maximaze production. And a third to maximaze trade and then the resources would flow between the regions.

While I do not mind some input by my citizens nor do I mind a Senate/House that would get in the way of some of my plans, I do not want to have to get everything through a legislative branch. I still want near 100% control. Civ is a game to control your empire not be bothered by the politics of your own nation. If I cannot have full control in a Democracy or Republic I would only play as a Communist.

	05-02-2001 07:07									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is kind of not on topic, but then again it is. How about you have to pay for the upkeep of your different advisors? So you have a choice whether you have each one or not?

	05-02-2001 10:42									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hm..this reminds me of my organization style in CIV2. (I'm an organization freak). I divide my empire into regions of 3 to 4 cities. Each of them support a number of militia (defense) units, depending on population and importance. These units almost never leave their regions. Each of them regions contribute units that make up my national army. The national army is what I fight with and it can move throughout my empire, defending chokepoints, raiding, attacking. I designate "capitals" of regions and they are places where my national army is gathered.

	06-02-2001 00:31									#6
	Got spare money?

Here's the basics for my concept of Regions.

• Regions are automatically implemented for modern governments, including Communism, Democracy, Fascism, etc.
  
• Regions are not implemented for early governments, including Despotism/Tyranny, Monarchy, Republic, Theocracy, etc.
  
• When the player first reaches a government that supports regions, there will be a pop-up window that will allow the player to set up regions within his or her civilization.
  
• Regions are comprised of between roughly five to fifteen cities, possibly up to twenty.
  
• The largest city in the region becomes the "capital," and the region is named after that city.
  
• The game still recognizes the individual cities, but they are controlled all at once, and their resources are evenly distributed.
  
• The player will still have the ability to tinker with the populations of individual cities, for example, changing Entertainers to Scientists, but will not be able to build improvements on a city scale.
  
• "City improvements" are built on the regional scale. For example, a Library built in a region effectively places a Library in every city in that region. (This will apply even for coastal city improvements: As long as a region has at least one coastal city, that region may build a Harbor, and every city, including the land-locked ones, will have the benefits of a Harbor. Regions without a coastal city, however, will be unable to build coastal improvements.)
  
• Units and spaceship improvements are built on the regional level, using the total production of the entire region. This will make it somewhat quicker to produce armies. Land and air units will appear in the capital once built. Sea units will appear in the largest coastal city if the capital is land-locked. Regions without a coastal city will be unable to build sea units.
  
• Wonders are built on the regional scale, using the total production of the entire region. When the Wonder is built, it is effectively placed in the "capital" of the region that built it. (Because late-game Wonders should probably be built by a region, it makes sense that they should probably have much higher building costs, making them prohibitive for early governments. E.g., Old-style Monarchies are unlikely to build the Manhattan Project.)
  
• Regions incorporate the tiles of every city within their borders.
  
• In addition, regions incorporate all non-city tiles within their bodrers and can effectively place workers in these tiles. These "extra" workers cultivate resources directly for the region, not any particular city. (This is the most important feature, in my opinion, and makes Regions a good time-saver for the late game, and will cut down on rampant ICS.)
  
• If the government changes to a lower form that does not support regions, all these extra workers are lost, and there may be food shortages, as well as tremendous loss of income and production.
  

	06-02-2001 01:49									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Nice use of bullets, EnochF. Classy!

I agree with your idea of regionalisation being a modern concept. It reminds me of the nationalisation 'discovery' that I think is in CtP, albeit badly implemented.

I'm not sold on your idea that regions should be totally 'merged', as such. I would like to be able to manage each city individually throughout the game. This does not mean Firaxis cannot implement a few region style features, like regional taxation for example.

Also, regionalisation may be a good way of including the contentious 'resources' concept. This is the idea that civs need to collect and trade different resources for use in manufacture. If this were done, then you could have it so that resources gathered would go to their respective regional pool, for use by all the cities in the region... Still, just a thought. I know how much some Apolytonites fear/loathe the idea of resource management


------------------
Josef Given
josefgiven@hotmail.com

	06-02-2001 02:50									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm using bullets a lot lately because:

• They're efficient
  
• They're visually pleasing
  
• They make my long-winded lists of suggestions easier to process
  
• I just found out how to use them a month ago
  

	06-02-2001 03:00									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I like it EnochF, except I have one main concern and it has to do with city improvements. You wrote that by building one city improvement in the region you get city improvements in all your cities in the region.

I have to wonder if then the cost will go up? Otherwise how can you build one library for all of Texas or all of Michigan?

One other question is that in each region will there be more than one build queue, one per city, or will each region only build one thing each turn? This becomes important when you set up your regions. If you only get one build queue per region than the player will set up more regions with less cities so that he/she can build more units.

	06-02-2001 03:42									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I suppose. But that pop-up window at the start will give the player the opportunity to either be a civilization with many regions, for easy warmongering (the units will take longer to produce, but more at a time) or a handful of powerful regions, for smooth play without too much micromanagement.

Eh, just an idea.

The library thing. By the new system, building a "Library" in a region would be like instituting a state government "library program" in that region. The base number of shields would just be the cost of building a single Library multiplied by the number of cities that don't have one yet. The region would then apply the total production of all the cities (and the extra tiles) toward building the regional Library, and when it was done, every city would have a Library. Even if the government changed later on, every city would still have a Library. So, I don't see a reason to change the build costs for city improvements. Wonders are a different story. Using the production power of an entire Region, one could build most Wonders in six or seven turns unless you balance things out.

And keep in mind that, behind the scenes, the city improvements still work purely on a local level. The Libraries, Banks, Courthouses and Supermarkets would still give their bonuses to their host city. The Region would simply be a way to reduce the amount of button-pushing on the part of the player, and also to consolidate the resources to avoid late-game starvation. And also to work extra tiles. Instead of a glut of Entertainers in the late game, a lot of those people would be working non-city tiles within your borders.