05-02-2001 18:12									#1
	if we have to live with it then lets make some suggestions Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well like most civ 2 veterains im mad that we have to have unique civs but if we must then lets at least throw some ideas about them (dont ask for it to be an option since I think they look at this forum and can figure that out )
what im asking is that if it HAS to be used in the game lets throw some ideas at em. for example:
country then bonus then how its realistic
germany:troops are faster: blitscreig
russia: 3 settler start:its a big country
china: -50% food to grow:its a big population
french: +100% movement:so they can run away from any war they get into (joke)
you get the idea but make sure they also have disadvantages like englanD can create colonies real fast but they revolt easier than anyone else (america,austrailia,india)

i dont like capital letters


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	05-02-2001 18:28									#2
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these are just a few of my ideas

america and other countries that wernt here during the early age need some kinda disadvantage but i dont know what.
british= good sea power, crappy land power-best fleet in the world but look at gallipoli.
germans= should be real milliteristic and early on have a bad economy (don know about later on)-ww2 ww1 and they were quite unorganized as tribes man during roman times
mongols should be real deestructive early but later on be real pathetic-mongolian empire during 3500bc vs 1900

k thats it hope to here some good ideas

off topic:does anyone know how to change there signature

	05-02-2001 19:25									#3
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But the advantages that many nations had later in Middle Ages or Modern times were not necessarily the advantages their prehistoric or ancient ancestors started with.

For instance, do you realize how tiny the province of Moscow was BEFORE it got huge? And as for Germans being faster? They only got the most efficient railroad system for mobilization after the 1860s.

	05-02-2001 19:31									#4
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Agree with Mr.Fun on this, Britain rules the waves ok .. but then so did the Spanish in their day, and the Chinese took on some epic sea journeys of their own , and what about the polynesians ??.. Greece was the centre of learning .. Oxford/Cambridge had its day .. but things move on ..

Maybe there should be optional "Feats of Wonder" that can bless a civ with a variety of short/long lived advantages, and in the Earth game, it could try and keep them realistic to the period ??

Whatever it is, it has to be simple, fit in with the Civ way of doing things, and most of all, optional

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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon
[This message has been edited by The Viceroy (edited February 05, 2001).]

	06-02-2001 04:00									#5
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To simulate how the civs changed over time, why not have say, the Spanish get a advantage with caravels and other early sea units for example a movement bonus, while the British get the advantage for later units, etc. Or for example give the Mongols early horse units attack advantages but when gunpowder comes along then they lose that advantage, and produce average strength units. Or give Rome super attacking legions. Or better Greek phalanxes, the list goes on and on.

	06-02-2001 04:26									#6
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But what if you're playing a random game and you're the British starting in the middle of a continent with, say, a sea-movement bonus? I don't understand how that would work.

	06-02-2001 05:59									#7
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raingoon basically hit the biggest problem with the whole unique civ idea, how do you fit in benefits and negatives into an epic game?

I personally like the idea of unique civs for games like SMAC or AoK, but I have not been able to see how they would work in Civ III. The game spans to long of a time period. The only way it would work in my opinion is for unique civs to come from an evolving society. However, I am open to an idea or suggestion that would implement unique civs and get them to work and I would like to hear from Firaxis on this issue A.S.A.P.

	06-02-2001 14:02									#8
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I think DrFell's ideas are fine, in a real world scenario .. but for random games, isn't it better to just get random/relevant abilities .. so if you happen to have a few ports .. then you may get a sea bonus, ?? if your worthy

Personally, it should be a rare event, and not something which should last throught the game ..

Don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water.



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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

	06-02-2001 16:56									#9
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I hate the idea of predefined unique benefits.
Instead i'd like to see small random benefits and disadvantages occur during the game. Such as:
- "Babyboom in Paris!" (population)
- "Inventive genius has made breaktrough in research" (science)
- "Cold winter has created energy crise" (unemployment)

etc

	06-02-2001 19:09									#10
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We already have some "hints" and relevant opinion (Brian Reynolds interview) about Civ advantages not static, predefined bonus we get from start to the end of the game.

I vote for a dynamic system, where:
- Random events can change things a little, for a short time period (as Stuff2 suggest)
- "Feats of Wonders" will be introduced to pay for some achievements
- Player action will enforce some Civ attitude, while weaken others: if you build a large armies (relative to population) and win battle a lot you gain some militar benefit, but you probably lose some point in population growth (less food available, less "meet for children" opportunity while men are at army ). If you spend your time in diplomatic agreement (without much backstabbing) your political credibility will raise, but you can have militar "moan" and more ready to revolt if treaty condition are not good enough.

This well complement a political system built from the best part of SMAC S.E.: if you fight a lot of aggressive wars it could be difficult to be a pure "democracy", you must be forced to shift to a "police state".

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

	08-02-2001 00:32									#11
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I think maybe you should have the option to randomize all the bonuses or pick them if you want, this would help for random maps. Maybe the computer could randomize them appropriately according to your start position, so if you start on an island you would get naval advantages, middle of a continent you would get faster horsemen, etc. This could even be extended to improvements like irrigation (irrigates faster, faster mining), etc. although that might provide too much of an overall advantage, such an advantage should expire later in the game (discovery of explosives or whatever).

	08-02-2001 04:20									#12
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Like i said before change what the specialists do!!!.
For instance a german scientist my produce 4 beakers...
I also say add more specialists(worker and farmer)
worker produces 3 shields and a farmer 6 food.

Also there are a ton of specials in the game. If the germans have a industrial bonus coal output should be increased by 2 shields, or a wheat produces 5 food instead of 3 for some civs etc... There is a lot you can do and i think this would be the most effective.

	08-02-2001 15:53									#13
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Chear up people, we don't even know that the benefits will be fixed like in SMAC. They might well be acquired.