24-03-2002 23:47									#1
	Early research Increase the size of your Attachments

I usually play Monarch. At the very beginning, when I choose the first tech to research, a ratchet the science rate down to the minimum % where it takes 40 turns to complete.

Has anyone noticed that different civs have different research rates?

I might be wrong, but Persia required 40%, and Egypt only required 10%...

R

	25-03-2002 01:53									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I´m no expert in the game mechanics, but as far as I understand, the civ you choose to play doesn´t count for how long it takes to research your first tech. It will rather be a question which other civs that are in your current game, and which techs they have at their start, cause it will take shorter time to research techs other civs already have. Of course your first town´s location is also crucial, if you have a lot of trade in your town working radius (eg. at a river or luxury resources) it will take shorter time than if you have very little trade.

	25-03-2002 03:06									#3
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it's all about your starting location, not the civ.

rivers, fish, whales, etc. all contribute to how fast the techs get done.

PLUS, each tech is weighted differently. for example (and i'm pulling this out of my ass) iron working will take more turns than ceremonial burial.

--hope that helps

	25-03-2002 06:13									#4
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My first reaction was "DOH! Of course the amount of revenue generated from terrain will impact research."

But on second thought, I'm not sure that get's to my point. Post-1.17, initial research is hardcoded to be 40 turns, no matter what. A lot of people therefore don;t bother with it, and just buy / extort techs. I like to research at least a little though, so I set the min % and go about early wearmongering.

What strikes me is that jump from 0 progress to 40 turns.

Why would being on a river, say, which generates some commerce, change where that "flip" is? And even if that's right, I'm pretty sure my start conditions weren't dramatically different enough to cause a jump from 10% to 40% (I c-s-q a lot to find good start positions, so in both cases I would have been on a river, with at least one good food tile).

This is potentially a big issue for picking civs.

R

	25-03-2002 08:23									#5
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quote: But on second thought, I'm not sure that get's to my point. Post-1.17, initial research is hardcoded to be 40 turns, no matter what

Not true. Turn up science to 100% and research ceremonial burial and you'll be done in either 8, 12 or 24 turns (depending on starting locations, and assuming I've remembered the numbers right).

quote: Why would being on a river, say, which generates some commerce, change where that "flip" is?

Duh? Your civ needs to generate at least one science/turn to progress in research. Your science rate determines what fraction of total trade is spent on science. The more trade you are generating, the lower a percentage you require to get at least 1 science. If your city generates 1 trade, then (assuming luxuries set to 0) any science rate 40% or below generates 0 science, 1 gold/turn. 50% gets 1 science, 0 gold (science rates are rounded up on the 50/50 split). This gives at worst a 40 turn discovery rate (depending on expense of discovery, it could be less). If your city generates 2 trade, then any science rate 20% or below will generate 0 science, 2 gold. 30% or more and you are generating at least 1 science, so discoveries progress. If your city generates 3 trade, then even a 20% science rate gives 1 science (and 2 gold).

	26-03-2002 01:55									#6
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On land terrain with no rivers or resources, you start off getting one gold from your city itself and that's all you get until you get a road built. A city along a river gets two gold for the city, and if you work a tile that's also along the river, that adds a third. If one of the tiles happens to have a luxury resource that generates extra gold, you could get even more. So starting terrain can greatly affect the science rate needed to have one gold go to science.

As roads get built and more tiles are worked, income increases, so the science rate can be reduced as time goes on. Those of us who are heavily into micromanagement can take advantage of that to avoid wasting any more gold than necessary when we aren't going to get an advance for 40 turns anyhow. (One warning: if you move people to lower-income tiles or depopulate a city by building workers or settlers, the science rate needed can go back up.)

Nathan