25-03-2002 01:19									#1
	Am I Cursed? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Seriously, My ONLY problem with this DAMN GAME is starting! Why the hell does the computer always stick me in the worst possible start location! I swear im always near a desert or something, I RARELY get anything nice like oh a wheat or a cattle or say a river..Yet my opponenets seem to have luxury resources and bonus resources + strategic ones APLENTY, it seems like it puts me in the MOST BARREN, Least likely place where I can get anywhere in the game. ARGHH IM SO FRUSTRATED I DONT WANT TO PLAY ANYMORE

	25-03-2002 01:46									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

GOD DAMNIT am I THE ONLY ONE? WHO CANT GET A GOOD STARTING PLACE? IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS. THE GAME HAS JUST PLACED ME THE PAST 30 TIMES IN A ****EN DESERT! WHAT THE ****

	25-03-2002 02:34									#3
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Usually I get decent starts.

It the start is bad, think of it as a challenge. Everyone likes challenges, right? Maybe not.

You can always reset.

	25-03-2002 02:46									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Jxpose GOD DAMNIT am I THE ONLY ONE? WHO CANT GET A GOOD STARTING PLACE? IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS. THE GAME HAS JUST PLACED ME THE PAST 30 TIMES IN A ****EN DESERT! WHAT THE ****

Calm down. We all have our problems with where the game places us in the beginning. Though I (most of the time) end up in fruitful cattle and wheat growing regions by a river, I always end up RIGHT NEXT TO TWO OR THREE ENEMIES!!! Now I'm a builder-scientist type of ruler, and I hate the prospects of ancient era warfare (its way too unpredictable). It really annoys me as I don't want to go to war until I have a science lead that really allows me to overpower them.

Anyway, you can get worse than desert. What about Tundra? Tundra is completely useless until you can plant a forest over it (Engineering in the middle ages), or discover oil on it when you research Refining. At least you can irrigate deserts to make enough food for the population to grow (when railroads come, even a desert can become the site of a bustling metropolis. Just look at Phoenix, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, or any other city in California, Nevada and Arizona. They are all in the desert, but get plentiful supplies of water from Colorado through an elaborate irrigation system). At least deserts become floodplains if a river passes through them, and then your population growth is guaranteed. It also gives you the chance to mine the desert squares as floodplains produce more than enough food as it is.

	25-03-2002 02:50									#5
	Tired of ads?

think ancient mongolia. no real resources caused them to be sort of nomadic. get huge horseman swarms and take over a civ that had a better start than you. then connect the two empires.

	25-03-2002 02:55									#6
	Got spare money?

yes! Im calm now, I just had to vent some steam..its freakin ridiculous when you can NEVER get a good start. Even in the game i finally just gave up and started on my start was mediocre, nothing special in its box except one wheat! woo... But Its not that I dont enjoy a challenge, but damn, the places I was starting where like this Usually just desert and jungle with my one the 2 or 3 grassland squares.....it started to get tiresome!!!!


**edit**

Oh and about being mongolia, I have no horses anywhere NEAR me sigh and frankly the ai never seems to trade to me, it rarely even shoes them having the resource im looking at,,even IF they have the tech so Im stumped.

	25-03-2002 06:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

2-3 grassland sqrs with 1 that has the +1 prod is all you need ...

	25-03-2002 07:32									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Buy SMAC. Play MP. Have fun.

	25-03-2002 08:17									#9
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What civ do you tend to use? Maybe you should try playing as another Civ. I have found that civs tend to start inpositions that sort of resemble their RL positions. Start as Germany and get in lush grasslands. Start as the Aztecs and appear in desert. Start as Zulus and appear in the Jungle. You get the picture. However, to offset the better starting position European nations start very close to each other. Weigh your decisions before picking a civ.

	25-03-2002 12:04									#10
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That's one of the things I always did with CivII also. If after a few turns, I do not like the starting position, I usually start over, usually after around 5-7 times, one will get a better starting position. It might have something also to do with the random map generated. Try a different setting for the map, a few times, and see what the game will do.
It's always a trade-off, some resources might be in a not-so-good starting location, whereas where the grass is green, there is not any resouces.

It's been the same way for years, ever since the game came out, it favors the computer. One has to work to win, which makes one try again and again. Its Virtual Reality after awhile, the computer hates you, and you hate the computer. The only satisfaction is beating the dam* thing.



It helps to laugh also at the game, because it is only a computer game, and not real, but if it were real, then you could really hate it, but its not real, just a game.

Its like a little kid, bugging you.

	25-03-2002 15:18									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by nationalist Start as Zulus and appear in the Jungle. You get the picture.

I haven't seen this. Its historicly wrong even if you do. That is, the Zulus do NOT live anywhere near jungle. They live in a seasonaly dry grasslands area. Watch either of the Zulu movies and you will see the real landscape of Zululand.

The Aztecs didn't live in desert either. They lived on a swamp. That is what Mexico City was before the Aztecs started draining it and farming it. The Sonora Desert doesn't go that far south.

It all seems pretty random to me. Sometimes my start is bad and sometimes it isn't. I don't mind jungle if there is some grassland in the area to get me started. Its better than desert anyway. Could be I don't mind jungle that much is because I like to play industrious civs. Clear out the jungle and you get either grasslands or plains. Keeps the AI away too. They hate the jungle.

	25-03-2002 17:45									#12
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One of the bad things that happens to you when you are handed a poor start location is stunted growth. Those potential settlers you don't get if you have a great starting location are dearly missed later on in the game. The reason is you are now behind several cities as compared to the AI. This means the AI can get to land that will contain strategic resources later in the game. The AI has an uncanny ability to "know" where that resource producing land is. So because he beat you to it by the time you discover gunpowder you're still stuck producing pikeman if your lucky. I won't even mention what will happen to you if you have no iron or horses in your territory.

Makes for a challenging game but is very frustrating. What are your chances of just surviving without some key resources? Most likely the AI will view you as weak and by the early renaissance age you've been eliminated.

It's probably better to ctrl-shift-q early when you realize you have a poor starting location.

	26-03-2002 01:10									#13
	Type of civ Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, I have had the same problem, looking for a start w/ a fair amount of trade goods for commercial civs, looking for an island start for the English, looking for a start w/ horses for the Iroqois, or just looking for a good start. Sometimes it seems like the game is just cursed. Restart, go to the bathroom, fix a sandwich, call a loved one, write apolyton searching for compassionate support from fellow gamers, or conemplate how kind Sid has been to teach us all patience then try again.
Sometimes it ain't so bad, though. A bigundous jungle on one's border can be a great natural barrier, though likely spawning ground for barbarian hordes. Also, an industrious civ can make almost anything, w/ the exception of tundra, bloom. Even with an icy homeland, take the fast track to map making, build barracked boot camp cities near mineral rich hills, plop cities on the coast w/ harbors, and pull an early conquering bustout on your more fortunate neighbors.
I remember one time when I was playing out the Eskimos - oops, I meant Iroqois - stuck in an arctic hell or a starting position. Almost gave up, but stuck it out, eaking every advantage I could out of what I had, and through sheer determination, ruthlessness and hordes of mounted warriors, managed to vault myself int 1st place before I had to reinstall or something due to patch problems.

	26-03-2002 01:45									#14
	Starting Position Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Try Marals map you get the actual Start pos. AND you can check it out before playing my opening up her map and seeing exactly what is in the Start area.

	26-03-2002 01:50									#15
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I restart a LOT. I'm picky about my starting spots. Really picky, and unafraid to admit it. Basically, I require a river (or at least a lake), a bonus resouce of some kind (preferably cow or wheat) and decent surrounding terrain (shielded grassland, forest, hills). I really like multiple bonus resources. The most recent game I played out started with 2 game and 2 cows (on plains) on a river, with some grassland, some plains, some hills, some mountains, some desert and some floodplains. Nice, huh? That took maybe 30 restarts.

I play for a bit, to check out the surrounding lands, and if it looks decent, I play on. If it's all mountains and desert, I try again.

-Arrian

	26-03-2002 07:38									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Like Arrian, I am also fussy about starting positions and will also restart many times to get one that satisfies my requirements. I have found that a world setting of warm/wet gives good terrain for starting positions: small tundras and small deserts. You get lots of jungle, but eventually these become excellent city sites once the jungle is removed. I will found several cities in the jungles just to stake out territory. I leave these alone until I can remove the jungle.

	26-03-2002 08:39									#17
	Alternate Fortune Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I also find a good desert site, loaded w/ flood plain rivers interspersed w/ mountains and hills is quite effective. You get massive food/growth from the irrigated flood plains that more than makes up for the occaisional pop loss and you can mine those mountains/hills for production. Its really about the same in the long run as flat, fertal bonus grassland tiles, just that each tile is more specialized. Plus, deserts are home to some pretty crucial mid to late game resources. If you find a desert start w/ all the above qualifications and a motherload of sweet smelling gold producing incense, your a fool to pass it up.